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Sabine Benning





Joined: 03 Jun 2007

Posts: 39

PostPosted: Thu 16 Apr, 2009 3:35 am    Post subject: english terminology         Reply with quote

Hello all together,

I am looking for the english word for "Waffenkunde" (it is german), may be to explain with: doctrine of weapons.

And also "Blankwaffenkunde" ( it is german), may be to explain with: doctrine of edged weapons.

I don't find the terms in conventionally dictionary.


kind regards

S.Benn
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Vaclav Homan




Location: Hradec, Czech
Joined: 22 Jan 2008

Posts: 90

PostPosted: Thu 16 Apr, 2009 4:53 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hallo
Waffenkunde is Wearponscience and Blankwaffenkunde is (like Cold or Sharpwearponscience ?) Arme blance science.

There is only one art of fence yet many ways to reach it
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Vaclav Homan




Location: Hradec, Czech
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PostPosted: Thu 16 Apr, 2009 5:00 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Small specification Blankwaffenkunde is about cuttin and sting wearpons science (sword, rapier.. for exampel)
Waffenkunde is science about fire wearpons and cuttin and sting wearpons.

There is only one art of fence yet many ways to reach it
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Sabine Benning





Joined: 03 Jun 2007

Posts: 39

PostPosted: Fri 17 Apr, 2009 10:00 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Much thanks to you,

but isn't it then "Weaponscience" instead of "Wearponscience" ? Surely a typos?!

kind regards and nice weekend

S.Benn
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Sean Flynt
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PostPosted: Fri 17 Apr, 2009 12:31 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

"Hoplology" might be the nearest English term.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoplology

-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
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Audun Refsahl




Location: Norway
Joined: 15 Feb 2006

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PostPosted: Fri 17 Apr, 2009 2:07 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

hoplology seems to be the science of fighting, focused on the human, while waffenkunde is the knowledge of or sience of weapons, focused at the object. (something more like "weaponology", if we were to make up our own words)
just bacon...
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Sabine Benning





Joined: 03 Jun 2007

Posts: 39

PostPosted: Fri 17 Apr, 2009 2:49 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thank you all together again,

Audun, what you explain is correct. Is weaponscience the correct term? Or is there at all a special english term for "Waffenkunde".

kind regards

S.Benn
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Jean-Carle Hudon




Location: Montreal,Canada
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Fri 17 Apr, 2009 2:57 pm    Post subject: hoplology and edged weapons         Reply with quote

Sean, Sabine & Andun
the hoplology reference has more to do with the mind set, or psychology, of those involved with the fighting, the word, or words, they are looking for has more to do with the weapons themselves.
The ''blank'' reference in german has been translated into french as '' armes blanches'', which in turn would be '' edged weapons'' in english, including everything from knives through swords to pole arms...anything you will cut or stab with when involved in attack or defense.
In french we would not really favor the use of only one word as the french language favors the descriptive process, so the
blankwaffenkunde would end up as '' L'Útude des Armes Blanches'' ( Útude= study of). or alternatively ''La Science des armes Blanches'' ( in this context 'science' = knowledge, though the simpler french equivalent would be 'connaissance' instead of 'science', this latter term having a more empirical connotation to it)...
I would think that the english would also favor a descriptive assembly of words over a single word, such as The Study of Edged Weapons, or The Science of Edged Weapons...I would prefer 'study of' as being less presumptuous than ' science of ',
which seems a bit to definitive in its scope.
Good luck with the translation, most of us are still working on '' weltenschaung''...

Bon coeur et bon bras
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John Gnaegy





Joined: 21 Sep 2007

Posts: 43

PostPosted: Fri 17 Apr, 2009 3:50 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

M. Hudon is correct about English's lack of smashingwordstogether...bit a joke there, that's not really a word. German seems to have a fondness for combining multiple words into a single word, whereas English leaves the words separate as a phrase. If you're intent on a single word translation, "swordsmanship" might be close.
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Sabine Benning





Joined: 03 Jun 2007

Posts: 39

PostPosted: Sat 18 Apr, 2009 3:54 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thank you all for help.

I am going to circumscribe "Waffenkunde" in the mind "Science of weapons".

"German seems to have a fondness for combining multiple words into a single word, whereas English leaves the words separate as a phrase." Yes, this is surley correct.

kind regards

S.Benn
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Lafayette C Curtis




Location: Indonesia
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PostPosted: Sun 19 Apr, 2009 8:40 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'm almost tempted to coin a term like "Wapenken" or "Swordken" for this kind of thing.
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Bill Tsafa




Location: Brooklyn, NY
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PostPosted: Sun 19 Apr, 2009 6:38 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I learned something interesting today. I have not verified it but I was told by a knowledgeable person that the tern "claymore" just means "sword" in Gaelic. This was a source of confusion fro me because I have heard both two-handed monsters and single handed broadswords referred to as Claymore. I was told today the Claymore does not refer to a style of sword at all.

I am hoping to get some verification on this. Thanks.

No athlete/youth can fight tenaciously who has never received any blows: he must see his blood flow and hear his teeth crack... then he will be ready for battle.
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Steven Reich




Location: Arlington, VA
Joined: 28 Oct 2003

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PostPosted: Sun 19 Apr, 2009 7:31 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Vassilis Tsafatinos wrote:
I learned something interesting today. I have not verified it but I was told by a knowledgeable person that the tern "claymore" just means "sword" in Gaelic. This was a source of confusion fro me because I have heard both two-handed monsters and single handed broadswords referred to as Claymore. I was told today the Claymore does not refer to a style of sword at all.

I am hoping to get some verification on this. Thanks.

Generally, you are correct; however, it is a somewhat involved question of Celtic terminology/vocabulary. I suspect that it wouldn't be too hard to find online, but I'm sure that Chris Thompson of the Cateran Society can answer this clearly and unambiguously.

Steve

Founder of NoVA-Assalto, an affiliate of the HEMA Alliance
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Bill Tsafa




Location: Brooklyn, NY
Joined: 20 May 2004

Posts: 599

PostPosted: Sun 19 Apr, 2009 9:34 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks Steven. I will follow that lead.

Edit::
Websearching brought up the following:

It would appear that Claymore does just mean sword.

With regard to the large two-handers the full name seems to be "claidheamh da laimh".
dÓ = two, lÓmh = hand
This comes out to "Claymore Two Hand".


broadsword: claidheamh mor

backsword : claidheamh cuil

basket-hilt sabre: claidheam crom


http://www.electricscotland.com/familytree/ma...aymore.htm

No athlete/youth can fight tenaciously who has never received any blows: he must see his blood flow and hear his teeth crack... then he will be ready for battle.
Roger of Hoveden, 1174-1201
www.poconoshooting.com
www.poconogym.com


Last edited by Bill Tsafa on Mon 20 Apr, 2009 1:39 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Sean Flynt
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PostPosted: Mon 20 Apr, 2009 9:03 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Some have suggested "spathology" for the study of swords, but that doesn't cover all weapons. I think "weapon science" is reasonable choice, even if it is a new term. Most people will understand what it means.
-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
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