Posts: 616 Location: Toronto, Canada
Tue 18 Aug, 2009 3:49 pm
| Greg Mele wrote: |
Hi all,
Very late to the game on this thread. |
But very well played once you joined the game!
| Greg Mele wrote: |
The only core technique that I don't see a direct reference to in Fiore is using the beak to hook the knee. But it is mentioned against the neck in half-swording (with the cross), and it done as an unarmed grab in the poleaxe material, as well as done with leverage with the haft, so it is not a big extrapolation.
Finally, I should point out that it is not extrapolation by Fioreists to apply the sword and spear plays to the axe - Fiore tells us to do so.
In any case, certainly between Fiore, Monte and the Anonymous there is more than enough material for a complete axe curriculum - certainly as large as is found in German sources.
Ciao!
Greg |
As far as I am concerned the knee hook with an axe is not different conceptually to the knee hook with the hand or dagger. Pulling the knee forward while the upper body is left hanging without support is a common condition of any throw affecting the middle of the body's balance. Pull out the lower support, the top crashes down. That Fiore didn't bother to detail and illustrate such a basic element of grappling knowledge is not a surprise. Boys learned such things wrestling with their playmates. Not brain surgery folks. :lol:
Posts: 82 Location: Central Oregon
Tue 18 Aug, 2009 9:45 pm
Greg,
As always, a brilliant post. Especially the part about the spada in armi showing a high cross and the axe the low cross - made me have one of those lightbulb moments (also called "Now why the h@ll didn't I see that?!?!) :)
On a slightly related note, reading through Tom Leoni's awesome translation of the Getty MS, I was struck by just how often Fiore "hyper-texts" - i.e. refers the reader either forwards or backwards for a technique. I began writing down every instance (slow day at work) and wound up with two pages worth of notes. The armoured sections of the MS perfectly show this - especially since the text describing the axe posta vera croce he says "my play is the first play of the scholar of the sword in armour" (or something like that).
Sorry, the more I study the more I groove on how inter-related and interactive these texts are.
Hijack over - we now return you to your regularly scheduled programming
Posts: 356 Location: Chicago, IL USA
Mon 24 Aug, 2009 12:43 pm
Kel,
I absolutely agree - you are taught how to hook and lift a knee multiple times in the manuscript - do you really need to see it again here, especially when he's shown you how to hook elsewhere and how to shoot the haft through the opponent's legs?
Alex,
Yes, Steve Hick laughingly called Fiore the inventor of hyper-text back in '99, and the more I work with his manuscript, the more I agree!
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