[Lafayette C Curtis]

Which book and which passage of Thucydides? I'd certainly be interested to check.

Anyway, while we're still on the topic, there was a Roman gladiator type known as the dimachaeri (probably from Greek dimakhairoi) that fought with a pair of swords. Like so many other gladiators, though, this type's panoply seems to have been specialized gladiatorial stuff and I've never read of it being used outside the arena, much less in a massed battlefield.

[James R.Fox]

Lafayette-It's "The Peloponesian War" by Theusidydes son of Olerus, his Incomplere book of history of the war.(he diled while writimg the final chapters). The reference is in section 8 the incomplete one.

[Lafayette C Curtis]

Section 8 by whose numbering? I've seen several different section numbering systems in the various transcriptions and translations of Thucydides I've read, and it'd help greatly to know which system is being referred to in this case because it's obviously not the same as the one used in the translation sitting on my bookshelf...

[Bill Tsafa]

[Jo Thomas]

[Roger Hooper]

According to Michael Grant's little book, Gladiators, “Dimachaeri were, as the word indicates, two-dagger men, unhelmeted.” Other sources define those weapons as the infamous sicas, or curved daggers. Sometimes two gladiuses were used. (Forgive me for not using Latin plurals.) Certainly one would seldom see a longer sword in the Ring. All contemporary pictures I’ve seen show gladiators sporting ridiculously short blades.

Just for fun, and veering off-topic, here are some gladiatorial types taken from Grant's book and copied from a post I wrote a long time ago on Netsword -

LIGHTLY ARMORED GLADIATORS

1. The Thracian - carries a sica and a small square or round buckler called a parma. His armor - greaves on each leg, leather bands on his thighs and left arm. No helmet.

2. The Retairius - this is the guy with the trident and the net. He also has a dagger. All he has to protect himself are some leather bands on his legs and a stupid looking piece of metal on his left shoulder called a galerus.

3. The Laquearius - Much like the Retiarius, except he uses a lasso instead of a net, with a dagger or short sword instead of a trident.

4. The Hoplomachus - has a gladius and a very large shield - no armor except a greave on his left leg.

5. The Velites - This one has a spear with a retrieval thong. If he misses, he can get it back.


HEAVILY ARMED GLADIATORS: all variations on the Samnite or Secutar (chaser)

1. The Secutar - armed with gladius or lance (hasta). Armor - Large rectangular or oval shield (scutum), leather or metal greave on the left leg, and a helmet with visor and a metal crest with plumes (galea). He has a mail sleeve on his right arm.

2. The Myrmillo - same as the Secutar, but with a fish crest on his helmet.

3. The Andabates - There is conflicting information on this type. A) He is very heavily armored with a blank visor - he has to feel after you. The only way you can get him is through the joints of his armor. B) He is a mounted, mailed catraphract with a closed visor, and will have to charge around blindly after you.


MOBILE GLADIATORS

1. The Eques -Mounted on horse with a lance and round shield, with armor on his thighs.

2. The Essedarius - Has an ancient British Chariot complete with a driver. Sometines this gladiator is a woman. Arms were probably javelins or a bow.


Usually lightly armed gladiators fight heavily armed gladiators, the essedarii fight each other or beasts.

[James R.Fox]

ladayette- I am ysing the Everyman Library edition, thanslated by Rex Warner and Edited by Betty Radice, The problem comes fron the fact that section 8 is just a rough outline with a bunch of notes ant memos thst the original publisher bsck in Greece didn;t understand, as Theucydies died before he finshed it and how it goes together is anybodies guess, He only finished as far as the destruction of the Athenian army at Syracuse,amd he was in his 60's then (old for that time.) Mr Warner says alot of comentary is on what was he saying in the later sections.

[Bill Tsafa]

[Dan Howard]

[Lafayette C Curtis]