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Arjan Elburg




Location: The Netherlands
Joined: 23 Apr 2009

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PostPosted: Thu 23 Apr, 2009 2:18 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Well im new to this forum but here goes,

I'm not sure If a percentage of the horses weight is a good measure to see what the horse can carry, because that would mean if you just stuff your horse with food and make him heavier he should be able to carry more. Tough I'm sure that it doesn't work that way.

Also some horse breeds can carry more than others, when you have these compact horses like mongolian horses or the horses from the site Phil Crawly posted there way better build and shaped for carrying weight then lets say most warmblood horses wich these days are bred with long legs and large backs so they look bigger/prettier in dresage. Tough longer legs and longer backs results in horses that can't carry that much or as good as horses should.

My vote for medival horse goes to the Icelandic horse tough they look small there well capable to carry an armoured man into battle (crusader type armour that is full plate for the rider and the horse is something else, unless you have a bigger, stronger Icelandic Horse it possibly should be even to carry that).

Another reason for the Icelandic horse is that thay can Tölt, It's a movement like the step but it can go as fast as good fast trot. but unlike trot your sitting perfectly still in the saddle.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bQU5pnOi7o -a movie of a Tölt contest, to show how fast they can go and how comfortable the riders sit.

The Tölt is a natural horse gait and many other animals can do it to, even Elephants tölt, tough for an unknown reason it was bred out of all modern horse rases (altough the spanish Paso Peruano can be learned to Tölt I think). The reason that Icelandic horses can still tölt is because they were taken to Iceland by the vikings in around the 10th century and since then put a ban on importing horses ever since, in fact even today the ban is still there, if an horse leaves Iceland it can never go back (even if an Icelandic rider participates in a contest outside Iceland the rider is forced to part with his horse because it can't come back). But because of the isolation the breed has remained Medieval all these times somthing no other race can claim I think (another good reason).

Tough I am unable to find out If Icelandic horses were actualy used in battle, they were populair with royalty and nobleman as there are reportings I believe that Icelandic horses were brought to europe's mainland because people wanted them.

Diex le Volt.
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Jared Smith




Location: Tennessee
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PostPosted: Thu 23 Apr, 2009 2:31 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Arjan Elburg wrote:
The reason that Icelandic horses can still tölt is because they were taken to Iceland by the vikings in around the 10th century and since then put a ban on importing horses ever since, in fact even today the ban is still there, if an horse leaves Iceland it can never go back (even if an Icelandic rider participates in a contest outside Iceland the rider is forced to part with his horse because it can't come back). But because of the isolation the breed has remained Medieval all these times somthing no other race can claim I think (another good reason).

Tough I am unable to find out If Icelandic horses were actualy used in battle, they were populair with royalty and nobleman as there are reportings I believe that Icelandic horses were brought to europe's mainland because people wanted them.


I share your opinion of a very big majority of what you posted above. The Icelandic breeds are genetically a fairly isolated example of Norman era horse breed descendants. I advocated before that the common Cob is believed to be close to horses of that era, and you can ascribe similarities between it and Icelandic breeds.

The Tennessee Walking horse is asserted by its association to naturally exhibit the gait you described above. In reality, many have to be trained before they will do it. It is true that a percentage (debated) will just naturally start doing this gait without training if ridden at an appropriate speed, but the majority do not without training. The knowledgeable trainers (discretely) can train other horse breeds to do it as well.

Absence of evidence is not necessarily evidence of absence!
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Gary Teuscher





Joined: 19 Nov 2008

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PostPosted: Thu 23 Apr, 2009 4:50 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Quote:
The Icelandic breeds are genetically a fairly isolated example of Norman era horse breed descendants.


If these indeed are very similar to Norman era warhorses, we are looking at an average weight around 950 lbs or so I would think.

Using the 30% carrying ability allows an avergae sized one of these to carry about 280-290 pounds, which would seem to be able to handle most men of the period in mail.
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Lafayette C Curtis




Location: Indonesia
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PostPosted: Sun 26 Apr, 2009 1:12 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Arjan Elburg wrote:
The Tölt is a natural horse gait and many other animals can do it to, even Elephants tölt, tough for an unknown reason it was bred out of all modern horse rases


Maybe because it slows down the horse at the gallop? At least that's the case with the pace--pacing horses are more comfortable to ride at the pace (with an equivalent speed to the trot), but trotting horses are faster in a flat-out gallop.
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Arjan Elburg




Location: The Netherlands
Joined: 23 Apr 2009

Posts: 2

PostPosted: Thu 30 Apr, 2009 1:03 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Well if you have a good ridden gaited horse then the Tölt or pace shouldn't affect the other gaits. Tölt can have the same speed as a slow trot to a fast canter. Pace is ridden only at galop speed (if the pace is ridden slow its unwanted.). But both gates are aditional and not in stead off the 'standard' gates.

I did hear somewere that for pulling duties you can't have a Tölting horse and a trotting horse is prefered. so that could be a reason why the bred the gait out.

And Tölt also is a very comfortable gait, as you are not going up and down as you do in trot or canter so when making attacks and the such it would be easier to aim. Atleast that is how it seems to me, i have little personal experiance tough.

Diex le Volt.
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