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David Sutton




Location: Bolton, UK
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PostPosted: Sat 21 Feb, 2009 8:10 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Brazil Nut pommels are very attractive, its a shame there are not more swords out there with them as they may well have been as popular, if not actually more popular, than wheel type pommels during the early medieval period.

Heres one of mine; a DT2131





I also own a Windlass Ulfberht but I don't have any pictures of it at the moment

'Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all'

'To teach superstitions as truth is a most terrible thing'

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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Fri 17 Apr, 2009 10:30 am    Post subject: Re: Brazil Nut swords         Reply with quote

Tim Lison wrote:
Brazil nut pommels on swords are among my favorite! I grouped all mine up today and thought it might be fun to share a photo. I'd love to see pics of any others that are out there!


Tim, I don't know how I missed this topic! Great photo... fantastic selection of swords.

Thank you for sharing.

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Tim Lison




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PostPosted: Fri 17 Apr, 2009 12:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Brazil Nut swords         Reply with quote

Nathan Robinson wrote:
Tim Lison wrote:
Brazil nut pommels on swords are among my favorite! I grouped all mine up today and thought it might be fun to share a photo. I'd love to see pics of any others that are out there!


Tim, I don't know how I missed this topic! Great photo... fantastic selection of swords.

Thank you for sharing.


Thanks for the praise Nathan!!! Funny that this thread should come up again as I have recently received a NEW brazil nut sword! This one was bought from ArmArt originally, but sent to OlliN for a new pommel, cross, and grip! The sword has a type XII blade. I think it came out great. I'm including a photo of the original I used for reference.



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Chad Arnow
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PostPosted: Fri 17 Apr, 2009 12:21 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Albion's Gaddhjalt has already been pictured, but here's another view:



Here's another one, the customized ArmArt S4 I used to own:


Happy

ChadA

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Tim Lison




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PostPosted: Fri 17 Apr, 2009 12:24 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Chad-

That ArmArt S4 is really nice. The scabbard looks pretty nice too!!!!
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Chad Arnow
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PostPosted: Fri 17 Apr, 2009 12:32 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Tim Lison wrote:
Chad-

That ArmArt S4 is really nice. The scabbard looks pretty nice too!!!!


It was a decent piece. I like it, but like the Gaddhjalt which replaced it better. The scabbard was nice, if overbuilt.

Happy

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Scott Kowalski




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PostPosted: Fri 17 Apr, 2009 3:01 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Tim,
Your latest looks great! I had forgotten about this thread until it popped back up to the top. It reminds me I really need to get a sword with a brazil nut pommel. Custom XIa or XIIIb first? Decisions decisions!

Chad,
That customized ArmArt looks good but I like the simplicity of the Gaddhjalt better. Nothing wrong with some decoration but plain just speaks to me more.

Scott

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Tim Lison




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PostPosted: Fri 17 Apr, 2009 6:19 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Scott Kowalski wrote:
Tim,
Your latest looks great! I had forgotten about this thread until it popped back up to the top. It reminds me I really need to get a sword with a brazil nut pommel. Custom XIa or XIIIb first? Decisions decisions!

Chad,
That customized ArmArt looks good but I like the simplicity of the Gaddhjalt better. Nothing wrong with some decoration but plain just speaks to me more.

Scott


Good decision to have to make! I'm thinking of a next sword too. I'm torn between a custom XIa, XIII, and a type X. Tough choice. If I do an XIa, it will have a brazil nut!
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Jean Thibodeau




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PostPosted: Fri 17 Apr, 2009 10:44 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Well there is my monster sword " RavenWolf "


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You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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M. Eversberg II




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PostPosted: Fri 17 Apr, 2009 11:06 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I had an expression, but then your sword eated it Eek!

M.

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Dan Dickinson
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Location: Michigan
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PostPosted: Sat 18 Apr, 2009 1:21 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I love seeing all the different varieties of this great pommel shape. Here's a quick pic of my Brazil Nut Beauties:
A custom Del Tin 2130, an Albion Knud, Reeve, Gaddhjalt, and A&A St. Maurice.
Thanks,
Dan



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Tim Lison




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PostPosted: Sat 18 Apr, 2009 2:10 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Dan-

Great picture! I have never seen the Reeve next to the Gadhjalt like that. Makes me want a Reeve! I always thought they were more similar....
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Lucas S




Location: poland
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PostPosted: Sun 19 Apr, 2009 11:26 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

hi,
beautiful swords! Big Grin ...do you know that the lot of brazil-nut pommels were hollow? ...on the pictures, there is a sword from the museum in Krakow in Poland. it's second one i've seen in my country with this type of pommel and second with hollow pommel made of iron sheets soldered together.
and on the second picture there is a brazil-nut pommel casted in bronze. of course the pommel is hollow too.
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Bjorn Hagstrom




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PostPosted: Wed 11 Nov, 2009 5:15 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I have a question on Brazil nut pommels, and this thread seemed appropriate to revive..

I have been looking around the feature section of the type X, XI and XII and most example swords seemed to be from the 10th and 11th century, with some outliers in mid to late 12th century.

The Sword of St Maurice Turin springs to mind, it is supposedly made in early 13th century, Question is if it intentionally was made to look old by using an outdated design?

Are there any examples of 13th century swords with brazil nut pommels, or where they going out of fashion already by the time of the second crusade?

There is nothing quite as sad as a one man conga-line...
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Maurizio D'Angelo




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PostPosted: Wed 11 Nov, 2009 10:49 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Bjorn Hagstrom wrote:
I have a question on Brazil nut pommels, and this thread seemed appropriate to revive..

I have been looking around the feature section of the type X, XI and XII and most example swords seemed to be from the 10th and 11th century, with some outliers in mid to late 12th century.

The Sword of St Maurice Turin springs to mind, it is supposedly made in early 13th century, Question is if it intentionally was made to look old by using an outdated design?

Are there any examples of 13th century swords with brazil nut pommels, or where they going out of fashion already by the time of the second crusade?


Record pag. 97.
There are some XIII. Dating 1150-1200
I think a hilt type "gaddhjalt" it dates from about the year 10th until 13th.
From an extract by Schulze-Dörrlamm around the hilt of the sword of Vienna. " the Crossguard alone can not be used for dating purposes as this type of Crossguard can be observed on many swords from the 11th, 12th, and 13thcenturies."
I think no is outdating The Sword of St Maurice Turin dated 1200-1250 . However, this type hilt were common in 1000-1150
Happy to be corrected if I am wrong. Happy
Ciao
Maurizio
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J.D. Crawford




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PostPosted: Wed 11 Nov, 2009 1:23 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I am not convinced either about the 13th century dating of St. Maurice (Turin). Going by its features it looks to be firmly 11th century, maybe 12th at the most.

From what I recall its historical provenance is pretty vague (discounting its mythical saintly provenance) so one can only go by its features. I seem to recall that Oakshott waffled about whether this was a type XII or an Xa, perhaps that is why he dated it later at first. Despite its narrowing toward the tip I would call it Xa-ish. But as old Oakey said many times, you can't go by blade type - and like I said, the overall pattern looks pretty early medieval.

If there is any other reason to put it later, I don't know about it.
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Luka Borscak




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PostPosted: Wed 11 Nov, 2009 2:26 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I think the only reason why Oakeshott dated it to 13th century is the blade he thought looked more like XII than Xa. But than again he dated some type XII swords to 10th century because of the hilt... So nothing is definite about St. Maurice of Turin sword...
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Maurizio D'Angelo




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PostPosted: Wed 11 Nov, 2009 3:23 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

J.D. Crawford wrote:
I am not convinced either about the 13th century dating of St. Maurice (Turin). Going by its features it looks to be firmly 11th century, maybe 12th at the most.

From what I recall its historical provenance is pretty vague (discounting its mythical saintly provenance) so one can only go by its features. I seem to recall that Oakshott waffled about whether this was a type XII or an Xa, perhaps that is why he dated it later at first. Despite its narrowing toward the tip I would call it Xa-ish. But as old Oakey said many times, you can't go by blade type - and like I said, the overall pattern looks pretty early medieval.

If there is any other reason to put it later, I don't know about it.


Is not easy to distinguish a XII Oakeshott says the same.
But apparently all agree to classify the sword of Turin as a XII and not like Xa.
My sources are taken from these books:
Armi Bianche Italiane, pag. 326
Armeria Reale di Torino, tab 123.
Dating 13th seems to be accepted by many authors.
Saintly provenance, only myth.
Additional insights are welcome. Happy
Ciao
Maurizio
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J.D. Crawford




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PostPosted: Wed 11 Nov, 2009 7:44 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Oakeshott talks about this sword on page 39 of 'The Sword in the Age of Chivalry'. He discusses the ambivalence of the type (X or XII) and the date (anywhere from Viking Age to 13th century), finally concluding "Unless some piece of internal evidence hitherto unnoticed comes to light, we shall never be able to be certain".
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J.D. Crawford




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PostPosted: Thu 12 Nov, 2009 10:55 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

BTW - here's an update photo on my BN collection. Not nearly in Tim or Dan's league, but growing in modest steps...


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