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What are the arts that comprise MMA competition--they are ALL combat sports. Why? Because combat sports have proven their effectiveness, time and again.
You don't see the ostensibly "street lethal" methods--the ones that are supposedly so superior to mere "sports"-- winning in MMA. And that is the point that you are apparently missing. |
I'm not missing it, I'm not even argumenting against it.... All those sports can create a good martial art once they complete each other. Alone they are handicaped.
As for the others street efficient MA I would expect them to be effective in the street, as much as I would expect a combat sport to be effective in a sportive encounter.
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Evidently you chose not read my entire post. I also mentioned fencers that have functioned well under unfamiliar formats and circumstances. |
Yes I did. My point was that a fencer who had to enter grappling without prior training in it, would not be able to perform well against someone who would. Would someone not trained in BJJ or any other grappling art or sport be able to win against a trained grappler? Possibly but I surely wouldn't bet on it.
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Georges St Pierre is a modern MMA practitioner, and he therefore trains in a combination of disciplines, like everyone else. Yes, he has a karate background, but he owes his success far more to things like muay Thai, Western wrestling (which he has an absolutely amazing aptitude for), and Brazilian jiu-jitsu (which he has learned under many excellent instructors). |
Actually his first MMA fight was while he was only doing Kyokushin at 16 years old against a 25 years old boxer. He won by KO. Many of his kicks seem to originate from this training.
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Definitions of "sport": an active diversion requiring physical exertion and competition; an activity that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often engaged in competitively; any athletic activity that uses physical skills, often competitive. |
You are stretching the definition. If we use it we could say that every martial art is a sport. Which could be true, but then not every combat sport is a martial art.
Let me reexplain. If you take sparring by itself, then it is a sport, like the SCA or fencing. But it is not the end but part of a larger context, that's were you seem to be stumble. It's like taking cooperative practice of techniques in BJJ and saying: "Well its just like aikido since it practice cooperative kata."
In a combat sport, you only work the techniques which are suitable in the competitive arena, other techniques are a waste of time as they serve no purpose in a sport. If on the other hand you are also seeing many techniques which are not suitable for the competitive arena, because your end goal is to be effective in a real encounter, then it is a martial art. For example the ARMA holds some competitive fights, and there are some rules, but not all the thecniques are admitted for safety reasons, that makes them a martial art. Just like the early boxers you mentionned. What they taught might be considered a martial art since it was not intended for the ring, as many moves they showed were illegal (just see the book "banned from boxing") while some weren't.
Or just like in the old prize plays that were mentionned earlier. If we take the english masters of defence, they taught a martial art, because the goal of their practice wasn't the prize playing that were talked about, but actual defense capability. They taught many techniques that were not practiced in those plays (ex: prior to the fencing mask you could not thrust at the face, but it was still taught, great stick wasn't part of prize playing either, nor was the halberd), and that's why it was a martial art and not a sport. Intent. Modern fencing doesn't embarass itself with techniques that don't fit in a competitive encounter, and that's very good for they wouldn't win medals if they did.
Here's another limited but simple definition: http://www.kontactsports.com/What-is-the-diff...aaaaaa.asp