Info Favorites Register Log in
myArmoury.com Discussion Forums

Forum index Memberlist Usergroups Spotlight Topics Search
Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > Paul MacDonald classical fencing sabres Reply to topic
This is a standard topic Go to page 1, 2  Next 
Author Message
Eric Myers




Location: Sacramento, CA
Joined: 23 Aug 2003

Posts: 214

PostPosted: Thu 22 Apr, 2004 7:49 am    Post subject: Paul MacDonald classical fencing sabres         Reply with quote

Paul MacDonald recently posted pictures to the Classical Fencing list of some new sabre reproductions he is working on. He hopes to have them in ready for ordering and general release in a few months time. As far as I can tell, these are very accurate reproductions of actual pieces, and based on my (limited) familiarity with Paul's work, they should be absolutely top notch. In fact, I sort of hesitate to say this because I really want him to keep focusing on providing classical fencing weapons, but I think he is one of the most overlooked weaponsmiths, at least here in the US.

Here are some of his pictures:



 Attachment: 21.18 KB
Three+hilts+and+grips.jpg
Left to right: Raedelli, Hutton, Pecararo.

 Attachment: 22.97 KB
Three+Hilts+side+view.jpg


 Attachment: 19.09 KB
Balance+points.jpg


 Attachment: 16.94 KB
Blade+tips.jpg


 Attachment: 19.02 KB
Full+length+three.jpg


Eric Myers
Sacramento Sword School
ViaHup.com - Wiki di Scherma Italiana
View user's profile Send private message
Johannes S.





Joined: 01 Mar 2004

Posts: 18

PostPosted: Thu 22 Apr, 2004 8:32 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

What is his web site?
View user's profile Send private message
Stephen A. Fisher




Location: Kentucky USA
Joined: 17 Oct 2003

Posts: 455

PostPosted: Thu 22 Apr, 2004 9:46 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Eric,

These will be manufactured by CAS Iberia/ Hanwei, not by Paul Macdonald. He would have quite a large order to fill if he were. Cool


(from the Yahoo Classical Fencing Mailing List )
______________________________________________________Mar 25, 2004
Dear All,

Just a quick note to say that after 12 months in creation from
original proposal, the first sample Italian duelling sabres are here!

One deep, pierced shell Barbasetti, one straight bladed Radaelli,
one Hutton sabre. All are perfect weight, balance, dimensions and
temper. I shall be fully assessing and testing these weapons and
making a couple of minor recommendations for changes before they go
into full production before long.

Photographs and a full testing report shall be forwarded soon!

Yours Very Truly,

Paul Macdonald,
Maestro d`Armi, IMAF,
Director, BFHS,
Macdonald Academy of Arms,
Macdonald Academy of Exercises
________________________________________________________Mar 27, 2004
Dear All,

A few initial specifications details about the sabres.

Duelling sabres ~ Blade length 34"
Grip Length ~ 5 3/4"
Weight ~ Radaelli - 632g Pecararo - 556g

Hutton sabre ~ blade length - 31" (to be changed)
Weight ~ 598g

The uploaded photographs show clear images of the hilts and overall
proportion, which is exactly that of originals. The straight duelling
sabre blade is an exact copy from an original that I submitted for
reproduction. Curved blade versions will also be available.

All blades handle fantastically, with a slight difference in balance
between the Radaelli and Pecararo.

All blades are also interchangeable, so a duelling sabre blade on a
Hutton sabre will give you a Barbasetti sabre! (The grip and hilt
form is exactly the same for both).

These blades shall all be fully tested this weekend and I shall let
everyone know how they fare. Actual retail costs for these are yet to
be confirmed and a few recommendations shall be forwarded for minor
alterations prior to general production.

More to follow!

Yours Very Truly,

Paul Macdonald,
Maestro d`Armi, IMAF,
Director, BFHS,
Macdonald Academy of Arms,
Macdonald Academy of Exercises

________________________________________________________Apr 21, 2004

Dear All,

Just an update regarding the duelling and Hutton sabres.

All recomendations for alterations are being taken on board. The
appropriate tooling adjustments shall be made and further samples
provided.

The Hutton sabre shall have an extra 2" of blade length and the
Radaelli slightly reduced in weight without compromising strength
overall.

A quote on time to production from now has been given as 3 months,
so they should be available from around the end of July onwards.

Initial discussions indicated that future classical fencing blades
should be possible, ensuring accurate weight, dimension and temper
blades for several weapon types.

I trust that this news is of interest to all and I shall of course
keep you all updated as soon as further is heard.

For your information, I shall be out of the country from tomorrow
until Monday and therefore unable to answer personal e-mails directly.

Yours Very Truly,

Paul Macdonald,
Maestro d` Armi, IMAF,
Director, BFHS,
Macdonald Academy of Arms,
Macdonald Academy of Exercises
_______________________________________
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Stephen A. Fisher




Location: Kentucky USA
Joined: 17 Oct 2003

Posts: 455

PostPosted: Thu 22 Apr, 2004 9:51 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Johannes S. wrote:
What is his web site?


http://www.historicalfencing.org/Macdonaldarmory/
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Eric Myers




Location: Sacramento, CA
Joined: 23 Aug 2003

Posts: 214

PostPosted: Thu 22 Apr, 2004 6:56 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Stephen A. Fisher wrote:
Eric,

These will be manufactured by CAS Iberia/ Hanwei, not by Paul Macdonald. He would have quite a large order to fill if he were. Cool


Hi Stephen, my understanding is that Hanwei is making some also, but separate from Paul. Albion also has similar items in their plans.

Eric Myers
Sacramento Sword School
ViaHup.com - Wiki di Scherma Italiana
View user's profile Send private message
Joel Whitmore




Location: Simmesport, LA
Joined: 25 Aug 2003

Posts: 342

PostPosted: Fri 23 Apr, 2004 6:42 am    Post subject: Contacting Paul         Reply with quote

Paul has some great stuff on his website and some unique items. I tried contacting Paul by e-mail before mytrip to Edinburgh last November. Craig Johnson suggested I get in touch with him. Never got a reply back from 3 or 4 e-mail tries. I would love to see the pic of his reproduction of the sword in the Wallace Monument. Alas! the pic on the website does not load. Anyone have that pic, please post it. :-)

Joel
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Yahoo Messenger
D. Perdue





Joined: 19 Nov 2003

Posts: 8

PostPosted: Fri 23 Apr, 2004 1:08 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

When are they for sale, and how much (ballpark)? I've been needing a pair of those Hutton sabre, and information seems kind of scarce.
View user's profile Send private message
Chris Holzman





Joined: 24 Aug 2003

Posts: 124

PostPosted: Fri 23 Apr, 2004 5:09 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Eric Myers wrote:
Stephen A. Fisher wrote:
Eric,

These will be manufactured by CAS Iberia/ Hanwei, not by Paul Macdonald. He would have quite a large order to fill if he were. Cool


Hi Stephen, my understanding is that Hanwei is making some also, but separate from Paul. Albion also has similar items in their plans.


Eric,

I got an email on 2nd April from Paul, confirming that these are being produced by Hanwei.


The hilts look good, although I have no desire to buy the straight blades. When the curved ones come out I'll have to give them a good test run. It looks like I'm going to be going to Blade show, and I seem to remember someone saying that they'd seen/handled these prototypes at a CAS Iberia booth somewhere...

Was that you Stephen?

I'm really hoping Albion gets a move on and get the next gen stuff done so they can repro my sabre - not that im impatient or anything. Big Grin

Later all - off to teach class. whoo-hoo.

Chris Holzman
River City Fencing Club
Wichita, KS
View user's profile Send private message
Stephen A. Fisher




Location: Kentucky USA
Joined: 17 Oct 2003

Posts: 455

PostPosted: Sun 25 Apr, 2004 6:11 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi Chris,

That was Tom Leoni that said he had handled the prototypes at a show in Las Vegas.
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Chris Holzman





Joined: 24 Aug 2003

Posts: 124

PostPosted: Sun 25 Apr, 2004 9:07 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Stephen A. Fisher wrote:
Hi Chris,

That was Tom Leoni that said he had handled the prototypes at a show in Las Vegas.


hopefully I might get to see them at Blade - I just can't figure out why anyone would waste their time on straight blades WTF?! s2000 blades work just fine for that. shrug. I'll reserve judgment until I see the curved bladed ones.

Chris Holzman
River City Fencing Club
Wichita, KS
View user's profile Send private message
Stephen A. Fisher




Location: Kentucky USA
Joined: 17 Oct 2003

Posts: 455

PostPosted: Mon 26 Apr, 2004 1:03 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Chris Holzman wrote:


hopefully I might get to see them at Blade - I just can't figure out why anyone would waste their time on straight blades WTF?! s2000 blades work just fine for that. shrug. I'll reserve judgment until I see the curved bladed ones.


Hi Chris,

Let me know if you happen to get a look at them. I just received an email from CAS Iberia saying that they should have them available in about three months or so.
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Chris Holzman





Joined: 24 Aug 2003

Posts: 124

PostPosted: Mon 26 Apr, 2004 4:15 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Stephen A. Fisher wrote:
Chris Holzman wrote:


hopefully I might get to see them at Blade - I just can't figure out why anyone would waste their time on straight blades WTF?! s2000 blades work just fine for that. shrug. I'll reserve judgment until I see the curved bladed ones.


Hi Chris,

Let me know if you happen to get a look at them. I just received an email from CAS Iberia saying that they should have them available in about three months or so.


The straights, or the curved??

And yeah, I'll let ya know if I see them. I haven't finalized my Savannah/Atlanta plans yet - but hopefully I will this weekend.

Chris

Chris Holzman
River City Fencing Club
Wichita, KS
View user's profile Send private message
Stephen A. Fisher




Location: Kentucky USA
Joined: 17 Oct 2003

Posts: 455

PostPosted: Mon 26 Apr, 2004 6:51 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

As you know, I share the same opinion as you about the straight blades. Either one really, your impressions about quality of the hilt fittings etc.
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Mario Perez




Location: Los Angeles
Joined: 21 Aug 2003

Posts: 41

PostPosted: Thu 01 Sep, 2005 2:02 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Has anyone by now yet purchased or handled one of the Hutton Sabres?

Very interested as By The Sword has a 10 percent off sale going right now and I'm contemplating picking up a pair while that's on ... if there isn't any negative feedback on them , that is.

Mario

"There is nothing new under the sun, but there are plenty of old things we don't know."
View user's profile Send private message
Eric Myers




Location: Sacramento, CA
Joined: 23 Aug 2003

Posts: 214

PostPosted: Sun 04 Sep, 2005 9:46 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Mario Perez wrote:
Has anyone by now yet purchased or handled one of the Hutton Sabres?


Martinez and I have both posted separate reviews to the classical fencing mailing list, but I can cross post them here if you like.

In a nutshell, we were both vastly disappointed. The blades are inconsistant, to stiff, have no foible, bend in the wrong part of the blade, and have no real temper. They feel lifeless, and the guard is too thin of gauge. Martinez returned his entire order, I plan to do some reshaping of the foible so that it bends a bit, but if I had paid full MSR I would return them also.

The Pecararos are alot nicer, but the blades don't have the right temper, and one of mine already broke after very little use. And what's the point of a Raedelli saber with a straight blade?

Eric Myers
Sacramento Sword School
ViaHup.com - Wiki di Scherma Italiana
View user's profile Send private message
Mario Perez




Location: Los Angeles
Joined: 21 Aug 2003

Posts: 41

PostPosted: Tue 06 Sep, 2005 1:38 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Well, I suppose for a sword they sell at only 100 bucks a piece I shouldn't be surprised, but oh what a letdown all the same ...

I saw Martinez's review just now, but couldn;t find yours ... would you mind cross posting it if it's of greater deptht than what you just wrote? Thanks,

Mario

"There is nothing new under the sun, but there are plenty of old things we don't know."
View user's profile Send private message
Eric Myers




Location: Sacramento, CA
Joined: 23 Aug 2003

Posts: 214

PostPosted: Wed 07 Sep, 2005 9:58 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Mario Perez wrote:
I saw Martinez's review just now, but couldn;t find yours ... would you mind cross posting it if it's of greater deptht than what you just wrote? Thanks,


Apparently I posted it to Broadsword_Heavy_Sabre, not the CFML. Sorry for the confusion. Here is my original post, but please note that my opinion on the temper of the pecararo blades has changed.

"After swinging them around a bit, I decided to adjust the angle of
the grips, so that the backstrap is parallel to the Pecoraro blade
and is in line with the tip of the Hutton. The tangs are
significantly beefier than on a sport sabre, so this took a little
work, but I am pleased with the result.

The Pecoraros are fabulous. We fenced in standard gear with no extra
padding and no issues. I don't mind the soft foible, it didn't seem
too whippy to me at all. After some fencing, I think I see some
stress points where the guard may eventually collapse, but since we
used both of them, I didn't have an unused one to go back and
compare to.

The Huttons are not as nice. I'm sure the guards are too fine of
gauge, and the foible is the stiffest part of the blade, which means
the middle of the blade is what flexes. The whole temper of the
blades seems a bit soft to me as well. I will probably remove some
stock from the foible to make it a bit more flexible. Also, like
much of the Hanwei "Practical Series," the blades are just too
short. This is all frustrating, but I do think these are a step in
the right direction, and an improvement on what is otherwise
available on the market. We ain't there yet, however :-(

As for fit and finish, There was alot to be impressed about,
especially given the price of these swords. I found the fake
rayskin grips to be comfortable, but the backstrap should be a
little flatter in my opinion. The fit between backstrap and grip
varies from excellent to mediocre, but this is purely visual - it
didn't affect the use at all. 2 grips were slightly loose, but
tightening the pommel nut (it has a lock washer too!) fixed that,
and they stayed tight through bouting as well."

Eric Myers
Sacramento Sword School
ViaHup.com - Wiki di Scherma Italiana
View user's profile Send private message
Mario Perez




Location: Los Angeles
Joined: 21 Aug 2003

Posts: 41

PostPosted: Thu 08 Sep, 2005 2:46 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Ah, thanks for the feedback. It sounds like picking up a half dozen Hutton's would be highly premature at this stage. Maybe they'll pull off a few changes for the better with the next round ...
"There is nothing new under the sun, but there are plenty of old things we don't know."
View user's profile Send private message
Chris Holzman





Joined: 24 Aug 2003

Posts: 124

PostPosted: Sun 25 Sep, 2005 10:01 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Mario Perez wrote:
Ah, thanks for the feedback. It sounds like picking up a half dozen Hutton's would be highly premature at this stage. Maybe they'll pull off a few changes for the better with the next round ...


Mario,

Please see also my review at http://forums.swordforum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=55815

In short, the Radaelli is absolutely inappropriate for Radaellian sabre work - as some of the techniques frankly *demand* a curved blade. Even if the heat treat was right, it still doesn't get the job done because of the lack of curve.

The guard is great - the grip is shaped well, but the phony fish skin has got to go - real, or plain leather, please.. even bare wood would be better.

It's unfortunate to say the least.

I thought the Hutton I got to play with was vastly better than the Radaelli, as far as the blade went, but from the sound of things, inconsistency is the word of the day.

Chris Holzman
River City Fencing Club
Wichita, KS
View user's profile Send private message
Micha Hofmann




Location: Bonn, Germany
Joined: 25 Mar 2005
Reading list: 2 books

Posts: 109

PostPosted: Tue 17 Oct, 2006 9:52 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

*Deep sigh* There really seem to be some problems with some of these saber's heat treat.

Since yesterday evening, I am the proud owner of a two-part Hanwei Hutton saber. Mad

It cleanly broke in two, during a normal quarte parry against a really light strike. Fortunately, it was a clean break and we immediately stopped, so there was no danger of injury.

I think that the cause for this blade failure was probably a faulty heat treat. I'll contact the guy I bought the saber from. Maybe I can get a replacement saber.

I've added some pictures of the broken saber, for those wo might want to take a look.



 Attachment: 93.67 KB
DSCN1061small.jpg
Whole Saber

 Attachment: 102.23 KB
DSCN1062small.jpg
Break

 Attachment: 95.76 KB
DSCN1065small.jpg
Break picture 2
View user's profile Send private message


Display posts from previous:   
Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > Paul MacDonald classical fencing sabres
Page 1 of 2 Reply to topic
Go to page 1, 2  Next All times are GMT - 8 Hours

View previous topic :: View next topic
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum






All contents © Copyright 2003-2024 myArmoury.com — All rights reserved
Discussion forums powered by phpBB © The phpBB Group
Switch to the Basic Low-bandwidth Version of the forum