wicker targes? -- myArmoury.com

William Fletcher · Posted: Mon 20 Oct, 2008 3:17 pm Post subject: Irish targe -rear view

Kevin

I’d love to see a picture of the rear of your Irish targe.

Thanks

Stephen Curtin · Posted: Wed 22 Oct, 2008 11:40 am Post subject:

Hi William, could you tell me where Joe's targes lack authenticity? I allways thought they were completely authentic.

William Fletcher · Posted: Thu 23 Oct, 2008 2:35 am Post subject: Targes

William Fletcher · Posted: Thu 23 Oct, 2008 2:48 am Post subject:

Just forgot one picture.

It reads:

This is a replica of one of the four identical targes from the Grants armoury. Three of them reside at the NMS. I would like to thank Mr. Larry Davis from Canada for sending me fantastic photos of these particular targes. He has examined these ones as well as several original targes in the finest detail. Larry Davis has made superb researches on original targes – including X ray-images and extra examinations- which set Mr. Davis at the level of great researchers like James Drummond, Stuart Maxwell and Collin Rolland among others.

Stephen Curtin · Posted: Thu 23 Oct, 2008 5:24 am Post subject:

Hi William and thanks for the link to MacLaines site. Yeah some nice looking stuff, I might look him up again when I gonna get a targe made but that wont be for some time yet as I'm allready waiting for a couple of custom projects so I'm a bit strapped for cash. Have you or any of your friends ever had any dealings with MacIntyre Targes here at http://www.electricscotland.com/webclans/m/macintyre_targes.htm If you have I'd love to here some feedback.

William Fletcher · Posted: Fri 24 Oct, 2008 7:34 am Post subject: -

Hi Stephen

I am a big fan of Alastair McIntyre’s Electric Scotland.
I met these painted shields long ago. They look really nice.
Check out the section “lifestyle” > Targes > The Highland targe.
You can also download a lot of books in PDF format from this site.
Since my Clan claim descent from Gregor, a son of King Alpin; we were always linked to The Scots of Dalriada.
At some point I guess we are cousins!

Taing.

Alba agus Éirinn gu bràth!

Kevin P Molloy · Posted: Fri 24 Oct, 2008 8:11 pm Post subject: Re: Irish targe -rear view

Chad Arnow · myArmoury Team

Kevin P Molloy · Posted: Sat 25 Oct, 2008 7:38 am Post subject: Re: Irish targe -rear view

Stephen Curtin · Posted: Wed 29 Oct, 2008 12:45 pm Post subject:

Thanks for the feedback William
Love the mount for the sword in those pics Kevin

Joe Lindsay · Industry Professional

Folks, I notice that my work is coming in for a bit of criticism on some forums.

Constructive criticism from academics, and experts, I am happy with, but from commercial competitors ....

I try to make good targes, which people enjoy.

Patrick, perhaps you could explain what you feel is wrong with my targes.

I am aware that my "Culloden" (the name I gave to that targe 16 years ago when I made my first) has a reversed part of pattern. Sorry, my mistake, which I will fix. We can all make mistakes.

I notice, Patrick, that your recent version of that targe has the pattern round the right way. Have you made any versions of any of the rest of my range ?

Is your "Lochbuie" targe based on any original ?

Sorry to carp on folks. I just feel a bit stung.

Joe

Stephen Curtin · Posted: Wed 18 May, 2011 12:11 pm Post subject:

Well after leaving this subject alone for a long while I found a reference to Irish wicker shields.

shieldshttp://www.libraryireland.com/SocialHistoryAncientIreland/I-III-10.php

Stephen Curtin · Posted: Tue 24 May, 2011 4:57 am Post subject:

Well after some more research I found this article http://lists.gallowglass.org/pipermail/artssc...00724.html It states that the reference to Irish wicker shields comes from the 1597 work "A view to the present state of Ireland" by Edmund Spenser. It says that these shields fairly big and long enough to cover the whole body, which I'm assuming by whole body, torso is what is meant. With the size and shape (oval and convex) of these shields taken into combideration, it makes less sense to call them targes, so from now on I'll just call them wicker shields. What make more sense now is the fact that these were large enough to cover the whole body, this must have been an important factor for unarmoured kern, they also seem suitable for defending against projectile weapons, similar to how ancient peltast shields were used.

From the above two sources I've come to a fairly clear mental picture of what one of these shields should look like (oval shaped, slightly convex, large enough to cover my torso, faced with leather or hide, and daubed with pitch/tar for water proofing), I may even start to make an attempt at making one soon. I'm also planning to make a couple of fire hardened javelins to go with it, and complete my lower class Irish kern kit.

In "A view to the present state of Ireland" it also says that these wicker shields were only used in Ulster (by both Irish and Scots), so a different shield would be needed to portray someone from outside of Ulster. Luckily there is also has a reference to "round leather targets coloured after the Spanish fashion". From what I can tell these leather targets were either the same as the known Scots and Irish targes, or they might be similar to the Spanish adarga, I think that when time and money allow I'll get one of each. I'll probably try to make the adarga myself, but I'll have the targe made by a pro as I dont think that I'm up to it.

Interesting side note the above article also has a reference to what seems to be the the 16th century Irish targe that was the basis for Kevin P. Molloy's stunning repro, made by Joe Lindsay.

Kevin P Molloy · Posted: Tue 24 May, 2011 4:37 pm Post subject:

Thanks for the compliment Stephen, I was aware of this document and actually sent it to Joe Lindsey when he was making my targe. I would love to see a picture of the bull's hide shield found in 1908. I was never able to track down a picture of it in my research.