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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Mon 15 Sep, 2008 9:31 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

People, I need you to act professionally and curb your attitudes. Consider this a preemptive measure.
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Ray McCullough





Joined: 23 Jul 2007

Posts: 5

PostPosted: Tue 16 Sep, 2008 2:27 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

[quote="Chase S-R"]
Quote:
His book is just an interpertation of what he thinks

Have you read the book?????? Guy Windsor detests interpertation and his book is based on Fiore

I have read his book. He says in his book that this is his interpretation. I can give you the page number when I get home if you want to look it up.

For the record I don't like it. Alot of his techniques depicted a lack footwork, but he spends a good bit of time on footwork earlier. He never put the footwork with the techniques in the latter portion of the book. Even in his cutting exercises, he does not show the cutting with footwork. He does show it in the section on how to perform the actual cuts. So why do the exercises without footwork and then show the actual cuts with it? Footwork is part of any cutting and cutting exercise. Practicing without the footwork and cutting together doesn't make any sense.

That is just one problem with the book IMHO.

Joachim Meyer covers footwork.

" The Lord is my strength and my shield, my heart trusteth in Him and I am helped.." Psalms 28:7
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A.A. Boskaljon




Location: Utrecht, Netherlands
Joined: 08 Apr 2008

Posts: 72

PostPosted: Tue 16 Sep, 2008 6:12 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The posts above here say enough so I'm not going to repeat all that. I just want to say that my post was not a attack to Guy or to what he thinks or write down. It's just how it is. I can also wirte a book myself, but that does not mean that it is a very good fencing book. I'm not even the one here who says that his book is crappy, I just say that it is just a interpertation. And it could be a very good one but it also could be a bad one....

So, please, no hard feelings Happy
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Chase S-R




Location: New Mexico
Joined: 31 Jan 2008

Posts: 166

PostPosted: Tue 16 Sep, 2008 10:26 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I cant give you the page number he told me personally Wink any way i think you missunderstood me, my interpertation of interpertation of medival text is making stuff up... when he says interpertation i believe he is referring to his interpertation of the text, i.e. his translation... Happy
Charles Stewart Rodriguez
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Michael Edelson




Location: New York
Joined: 14 Sep 2005

Spotlight topics: 2
Posts: 1,032

PostPosted: Tue 16 Sep, 2008 10:50 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Rodolfo,

You've stumbled upon the best and worst thing about HES. It's a goldrush.

In a way that's good, because it's a ground floor opportunity for people who can contribute to go ahead and do so. This is a very positive thing, as potential talents do not go to waste.

On the flip side, it is often difficult to not drown amidst a chorus of "me too!"s. There is no filter, short of personal experience, to seperate the genuine talents from the wanna be's. And it's catch 22, because to be able to make an informed decision you have to know a bit yourself, and to know a bit, you have to find someone to teach it to you, someone who you won't recognize until it's too late one way or the other. It's too easy, unfortunately, to fall into cults of personality without much genuine HEMA behind them.

Established names are established for a reason. People brought up Guy WIndsor. Guy is a respected leader of the community because his interpretations and teachings have held up to peer review. Note I said peer review, not community review (though of course he is also widely accepted by the community). Yes, anyone can write a book. And many people have. There are many examples of books written by people who should be studying more and writing less, but odds are you've never heard of them, and there's a very good reason for that.

It can be difficult to know who to trust. My advice to anyone looking for someone to trust is to first find a community that you can accept as an authority. By community I mean group of like minded HEMA practicioners. Then evaluate that community objectively. What have they contributed? What books have they published? Who makes up that community and what are their backgrounds? Is the emphasis of their training something you agree with (is free play the end goal, or a tool? Is genuine research and scholarship required to interpret treatises, or does everyone with a keyboard get the same attention? Does the group focus on learning and drilling, or do they show you the guards, give you a simulator and slap you into the octagon?) Do they spend their time fine tuning their interpretations, or ripping on others to elevate themselves? Most importantly, is this a community with a history of admitting mistakes and changing interpretations? Or are they too full of themselves to ever admit a mistake?

Once you found a community, decide which art you want to study, and find someone in that community to teach it to you. And, this is very important, until you've put in enough time to make your own informed decisions, trust that person's word as absolute fact. Avoid the standard HES temptation to say "oh, it's just an interpretation, and mine is as good as anyone's even though I have no real experience in martial arts".

Eventually, you'll get to the point where you will know enough that you can work from the sources directly, and then you'll be a genuine contributor, whether by virtue of your fighting skills, scholarship, teaching ability, ability to interpret, or whatever.

New York Historical Fencing Association
www.newyorklongsword.com

Byakkokan Dojo
http://newyorkbattodo.com/
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Jean Thibodeau




Location: Montreal,Quebec,Canada
Joined: 15 Mar 2004
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PostPosted: Tue 16 Sep, 2008 10:59 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Chase S-R wrote:
I cant give you the page number he told me personally Wink any way i think you missunderstood me, my interpertation of interpertation of medival text is making stuff up... when he says interpertation i believe he is referring to his interpertation of the text, i.e. his translation... Happy


Sounds mostly just a misunderstanding due to imprecise or casual use of the word " interpretation ".

Experimental testing of various interpretations being used to try and decide what seems to work best.

( EDITED ADDITIONAL: After reading Michael's post he was writting while I was writting mine. Anyway, he said it better and more completely. Big Grin )

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Rodolfo Martínez




Location: Argentina
Joined: 30 Nov 2006

Posts: 347

PostPosted: Tue 16 Sep, 2008 7:02 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thank you Michael,
I really appreciate your answer, there are no instructors or groups in Argentina, martial arts here are dominated by asian styles.
I really wish to start something here, but even having a spanish version of Flos Duellatorum, it is hard for me to understand what Fiore wanted to do or show, and my fear is misunderstanding of Renaissance Martial Arts.

I really wish to learn how to fight with the longsword, and how to apply its techniques accurately, in a duel or combat situation.

¨Sólo me desenvainarás por honor y nunca me envainarás sin gloria¨
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Michael Edelson




Location: New York
Joined: 14 Sep 2005

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Posts: 1,032

PostPosted: Tue 16 Sep, 2008 7:36 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Rodolfo Martínez wrote:
Thank you Michael,
I really appreciate your answer, there are no instructors or groups in Argentina, martial arts here are dominated by asian styles.
I really wish to start something here, but even having a spanish version of Flos Duellatorum, it is hard for me to understand what Fiore wanted to do or show, and my fear is misunderstanding of Renaissance Martial Arts.

I really wish to learn how to fight with the longsword, and how to apply its techniques accurately, in a duel or combat situation.


Your apparent dedication to getting it right is very encouraging. I think you should start something down there, if you can. Is it possible for you to travel? If so, go to a seminar. One day of practical instruction by the right person can turn on a lightbulb for you that can make all the written works clear. Attending WMAW, for example, would give you a solid foundation to work from. But I'm sure there are closer events for you to travel to. Or if you can get a group of interested people together and chip in some money, you can get someone to come to you for a day or two.

If not, you'll have to do the best you can on your own. If one person's Fiore book isn't doing it for you, get another....get as many as you can. Find someone willing to work with you remotely, to answer questions, evaluate videos, etc.

Get a study group going...get others involved. Maybe you'll find someone with a gift for learning from books. Maybe you can talk an experienced JSA guy into stuyding with you...he may have a big advantage in putting the techniques the period sources into practice.

I wish you the best of luck! If there's anything I can do, let me know.

New York Historical Fencing Association
www.newyorklongsword.com

Byakkokan Dojo
http://newyorkbattodo.com/
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