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Jean Thibodeau
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 Posted: Mon 11 Aug, 2008 7:22 am Post subject: |
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| Vincent Le Chevalier wrote: |
The difference between these pivot points depend on the type of sword, maybe on your Ravenwolf it is not all that big. It can happen on heavy cutting swords. On other swords such as those named earlier by Nathan I'd expect the effect to be very noticeable. |
" Not all that big ": UH, no, it is big ! maybe too big but for all the reasons I mentioned before I still like it although I could question some of my design decisions.
Stats on it are:
Weight: 4lb 15oz.
OAL: 43 1/2"
BL: 36 1/2"
POB: 4 1/8"
COP: 23 1/2"
All of the above from the OlliN site, I would add that the blade is 3/8" thick near the guard and distal tapers in a complex way to a thin tip. ( Not measured accurately but around 1/10" and certainly below 1/8" ).
As to finding the pivot points the wiggle/waggle method seems to be very easy but if I do a more complex rotation going one handed from " Plough " to " Ox " one can get a very clear indication of around what point on the sword it naturally rotates.
In fact trying to rotate around another point is almost impossible and one must force the sword along a different path more linearly. ( Hard to explain this but maybe the motion becomes forced in that the natural inertia of the sword is forcefully redirected i.e. fighting the sword rather than going along with it: One wouldn't naturally do this as it feels very unnatural, takes a great deal of mental effort and feels a lot like trying to " push " a rope ).
Oh, and I'm not sure if I was clear or if I am understanding the rest of what you wrote ? But I mean that with two hands on the sword there is a leverage factor and one can rotate around the right hand or keep the left hand in position and rotate around that hand ( Something more rarely done as the rear left hand usually moves while the right hand is the " in hand " rotation point ). Oh, about the sword's pivot point I'm think more about where mid-blade it tends to rotate.
With a two handed hold: Instead of a simple lever it's more like one one applying leverages but being able to dynamically change the ratios of the lever arms to a degree depending on how the rotation is applied. ( Moving the position of the fulcrum during the motion ).
There is also how one looks at a rotation: If one hold the right hand ( assuming a right handed person for simplicity ) in a fixed position in space with the left ( rear hand ) rotating a two handed sword one is not rotating around the swords pivot point: This normally doesn't happen because in a real cut the left hand may be doing most of the rotating or orientation of the sword but the right hand also moves forward so that is is a compound movement and the two hands moving together in an arc are much more affected by the mid-blade pivot point than in the first " less realistic " simple rotation in the right hand.
Well, hope this sort of makes sense as it is something mostly felt in the hands and body that I'm trying to describe and see how it relates to all the pivot point questions, and I risk confusing even myself.  
You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Vincent Le Chevalier
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| Posted: Mon 11 Aug, 2008 11:23 am Post subject: |
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| Jean Thibodeau wrote: | | Vincent Le Chevalier wrote: | | The difference between these pivot points depend on the type of sword, maybe on your Ravenwolf it is not all that big. |
" Not all that big ": UH, no, it is big ! maybe too big but for all the reasons I mentioned before I still like it although I could question some of my design decisions. |
I was speaking of the difference, Jean, I was speaking of the difference  I know you have one monster of a sword
It's true that the sword can seem to naturally pivot around some point in certain conditions, and this point is not necessarily the pivot point of either front or back of the handle. The term pivot point is misleading in this regard; it does not mean that the sword can only rotate around some particular pivot point. As a matter of fact, when you cut with your sword, it does not rotate mid-blade, obviously.
The correct term for pivot points would be centers of percussion, but this is misleading as well in a sword context because the word came to mean something else entirely. I'm considering starting to call them "points of gyration", since they are directly linked to the radius of gyration. Anyway...
All these variations of point of rotation stem mainly from the way you act on the handle. It is because our actions are complex that we can get a complex motion. But the way the sword translates our complex actions into a complex motion is simple, and is given by pivot points as found by the waggle test.
--
Vincent
Ensis Sub Caelo
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Chris Fields
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| Posted: Mon 11 Aug, 2008 12:34 pm Post subject: |
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Oh, I definitly think they are important. I just don't know how soon we'll be getting those stats online! =) It definitly would be nice.
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Jean Thibodeau
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| Posted: Mon 11 Aug, 2008 1:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Vincent Le Chevalier wrote: | | Jean Thibodeau wrote: | | Vincent Le Chevalier wrote: | | The difference between these pivot points depend on the type of sword, maybe on your Ravenwolf it is not all that big. |
" Not all that big ": UH, no, it is big ! maybe too big but for all the reasons I mentioned before I still like it although I could question some of my design decisions. |
I was speaking of the difference, Jean, I was speaking of the difference I know you have one monster of a sword
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Oh, I see now how I misread what you wrote.   ....... 
You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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