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Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > Leaf Blade.. Ideas? Reply to topic
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Evan McGee





Joined: 06 Jul 2008

Posts: 4

PostPosted: Sun 06 Jul, 2008 7:20 am    Post subject: Leaf Blade.. Ideas?         Reply with quote

greetings. I'm in the market for a new sword and I'm thinking a Leaf Blade is what I'd like...I just don't know who to buy one from. .. the things I want out of it are... well.. fully functional.. I don't buy wall hangers... I want it hand folded... wich is harder to find than I'd think... but I suppose the style is a bit rare... I want it unique, y'know. something I can say "No one else has a sword exactly like this. I'd like some suggestions. I was looking at Badger Blades to start with.. but I've been reading alot of bad feedback about them.. I knew Mike, one of "The Badger's" teachers... one of the two Highland Steel brothers. I have one of the last swords he ever forged in my closet... He made it on contract for me, a bastard with a 35.5 inch blade and a 9.5 inch handle... I have small hands but strong arms... it broke 2 days after he died, so I'm sentimental about his method and his apprentices.. but I have never heard the things about Badger's swords that Mike and Mark put out with Highland Steele.
I'm open to suggestions for other makers though... I'm getting a bit skittish about them after 6 years of selling... their warranty bothers me.

E
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Gabriel Lebec
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Location: NY, NY
Joined: 02 Oct 2003
Reading list: 32 books

Posts: 420

PostPosted: Sun 06 Jul, 2008 8:55 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Greetings Evan, and welcome to myArmoury!

There are a several different requests and ideas in your post.

Leaf Blades

First of all, precisely what kind of sword did you want? A "leaf-bladed" sword is a general description of form, but does not take into account historical vs. fantasy, era, location, culture, size, function, mounts, etc. In European history specifically there are some examples of leaf-bladed swords early on, such as the Greek xiphos and some iron Hallstadt swords. This topic has been discussed many times:
Folding, Hand-Forging, Etc.

This site is focused on functional swords both antique and new, so you need not worry about finding real swords (vs wallhangers). Indeed, our Links page has a smattering of makers and distributors, and our Reviews section covers a good number of those as well as some other examples. Members here will also recommend some other smiths.

Folding per se is a very specific technique used in certain cultures and eras. For instance, the billets used to create nihonto (Japanese blades) are refined and homogenized using a folding technique, and the Anglo-Saxons used a technique known as pattern-welding to twist and fold rods together to form a complete sword blank.

But folding does not magically improve a sword in any way; it is one step in a complex multi-step process that varies from sword type to sword type. For example, the Japanese had to fold (and still do fold) their billets because the samples of tamahagane they use were smelted out of iron-bearing sand, and are delivered to the smith in highly varying degrees of carbon content and impurities. Folding burns off these impurities as slag and redistributes the carbon content more evenly. A side effect is a beautiful, subtle, "grain" pattern on the steel skin. However, taking an already clean and even piece of steel and folding it would not improve it functionally in any way; it would only continue to burn off carbon, eventually transforming the sample into a lump of iron.

There are many custom smiths who can do folding work for aesthetic or traditional reasons. If you wanted a Japanese sword I could point you to antiques, traditional Japanese swordsmiths, and custom Japanese-style swordsmiths. If you had an eye for pattern-welded swords, we could point you to custom smiths producing that type of work as well. But it would help if you could give a clearer idea of what exactly you wanted.

There is yet another consideration, which is that perhaps instead of "folding" you merely meant "hammer-forged," as opposed to pure stock removal. For information on that practice I suggest you read the following article:
Ground or Pound? Forging vs Stock Removal.

Badger Blades

Badger Blades has also been discussed before:
Conclusion

I hope that gives you a starting point for your own search. I would suggest you hang around for a while, get some books based on your area of interest (whatever that may be), and form a specific idea of what kind of sword you are looking for. That way the members of this site will be much more able to give tailored advice.

Regards,
-GLL

P.S. The Search function is located in the forum sub-menu above; I found all the forum links in this post via simple searches.

"The most beautiful experience we can have is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion that stands at the cradle of true art and true science." - Albert Einstein
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William C Champlin




Location: San Antonio,Texas USA
Joined: 22 Sep 2004

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 117

PostPosted: Sun 06 Jul, 2008 8:33 pm    Post subject: leaf blade         Reply with quote

Hey Evan. I have an Atrim 2103 that I am very fond of. I too have small hands and find this sword easy to use with one or both. The blade is 30" so it may be a bit shorter than you might want , but I love mine. It's not folded but I feel that it's a very high quality sword. I first noticed this sword on the old SFI store site but eventually bought one from Gus's legacy line from Christian Fletcher. It's my first Angus Trim but I definitely want to have others after handling and cutting with this one.
jusy my opinion,W

tweetchris
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Evan McGee





Joined: 06 Jul 2008

Posts: 4

PostPosted: Mon 07 Jul, 2008 6:13 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

To second poster first, tweetchris, many thanks for the recommendation. your response is much simpler to sum up a reply to than the other. .

Now to the first.

A) excelent point, I should learn to be more specific. I'm not hard pressed on Historical these days.. though many of my pieces where bought for their simplistic and traditional, more historically accurate pieces, this is a vanity piece. The idea of it being a "fantasy sword" doesn't bother me, I'm looking for asthetics, elegance of form and of course, as I said, functional. The "celtic" styles of the leaf blade appeal to me most.. northern European design in style. Though I will likely end up with a "Fantasy" blade, mearly for the look. I am weak on this point, but it's a collection piece I've always wanted.

B) Yes, you are correct I do not mean "folded" I did indeed mean "hammer-forged." this is sheer idiocy of me, and a confusion of terms... and yeah.. my bad.

C) Yes I read one of the Badger Blades threads, stumbled across it on accident actually, wich is what lead me to read a bit more, including a few of the threads on leaf-blades... and then on to signing up and writing my post.

I applaud your knowledge on the subject. I knew I'd learn a few things here and get some well-educated responses, having read a few threads first, and you haven't let me down.
Many Thanks.
E
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Chad Arnow
myArmoury Team


myArmoury Team

PostPosted: Mon 07 Jul, 2008 7:40 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Evan,
I've seen some Badger blades items at the Ohio faire and have cut with one. They are tough, but are non-historical, overbuilt and, to my eye, ugly. Happy If you're looking for "asthetics, elegance of form" I'd look elsewhere.

If Angus Trim (Atrim) still makes leaf blades (I haven't checked his site recently), having Christian Fletcher dress one up would make for a nice-looking good performer.

Happy

ChadA

http://chadarnow.com/
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Evan McGee





Joined: 06 Jul 2008

Posts: 4

PostPosted: Mon 07 Jul, 2008 8:16 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'm leaning more and more towards an Atrim sword.. the more I look at them and read on them the more I like.. and It would certainly come out gorgeous from Fletcher's shop.
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G Ezell
Industry Professional



Location: North Alabama
Joined: 22 Dec 2003

Posts: 235

PostPosted: Mon 07 Jul, 2008 10:12 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Michael Tinker Pearce just made a really nice one, not historical but based aesthetically on bronze age types.
http://forums.swordforum.com/showthread.php?t=90176
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Norman McCormick





Joined: 17 Jan 2007

Posts: 125

PostPosted: Mon 07 Jul, 2008 10:59 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi,
I would heartily recommend that you try Rob Millar of Castle Keep Forge on the Isle of Skye, he has made some really beautiful Leaf Blades in the past.
Regards,
Norman.
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Thom R.




Location: Tucson
Joined: 26 Jul 2007
Reading list: 30 books

Posts: 630

PostPosted: Mon 07 Jul, 2008 11:07 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

If you are not looking for historical, then Jody Samson might fit the bill. http://www.jodysamson.com/

imho nobody does hollow-grinding better than Mr. Samson
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Jared Smith




Location: Tennessee
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Likes: 1 page

Spotlight topics: 3
Posts: 1,532

PostPosted: Mon 07 Jul, 2008 1:50 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Back on the "folded" theme, you could request a laminated (piled construction, historically accurate to the period) blade core. A center layer with extra toughness (S2 or S7 - jackhammer bit steel surrounded by 1084 spring carbon) might make for an interesting performer and story - bragging rights. I am not sure when the leaf blade became obsolete (B.C. era?), but fully ornate pattern welding was primarily in the era of straight spatha - migration era swords.
Absence of evidence is not necessarily evidence of absence!
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Douglas S





Joined: 18 Feb 2004

Posts: 177

PostPosted: Tue 08 Jul, 2008 4:17 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Another approach at a leaf-blade:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model_1832_Foot_Artillery_Sword

On the other hand you have me wondering what a BIG (type XIIIb) single-handed leafy with La Tene/Viking fittings would be like....
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