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Bruno Giordan
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 Posted: Fri 17 Oct, 2008 2:34 am Post subject: |
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| David Black Mastro wrote: | | Curt Cummins wrote: | | David Black Mastro wrote: | | Shayan G wrote: | | Curt Cummins wrote: | | Nathan Bedford Forrest and my kin that rode with him. |
That's a good one, I'm reading his biography right now! He's a very misunderstood character thanks to inaccurate rumors about him Yankees spread after the war.
Here's a fun blurb:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Rrh-cbp9Oo |
Didn't he help establish the Ku Klux Klan? |
Yes, he was involved in the Reconstruction Klan, which was somewhat different from the modern Klan. I would suggest that you read up on radical Reconstruction and his role in it before you judge him. An interesting note, my Civil war veteran ancestors - g'g' grandfather and his father were not slaveholders, as most Conferderate soldiers were not. If that war was all about slavery, as the Yankee historians say, why did so many men fight and die for a system in which they had no stake?
Curt
Curt |
What was the War Between the States "all about" then, Curt?
I ask this because I'm genuinely interested in your opinion, and I'm also curious as to this supposed plot by "Yankee historians".
Thanks,
David |
Marxist historians, a current that cannot be suspected of sympathy for the Southern system, do think hat the war was fought out of economic supremacy question, as the South and the North had different economical system who were becoming incompatible.
The North, being the expression of industrial capitalism, was in natural conflict with an agrarian society, and for them the slavery question was just a pretext to hist the basis of the Southern economy.
More broadly, this justification is accepted anywhere in Europe, even by scholars of different philosophical stance, so I was taught at school as for an example.
There are very few serious historian, regardless of their philosophical background, who accept the idea that wars are fought for ideal motivations, who fall mostly in the category of propaganda.
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Bruno Giordan
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| Posted: Fri 17 Oct, 2008 2:58 am Post subject: |
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| Jared Smith wrote: | In addition to many of the other 12th-13th century figures already mentioned... Frederick I Barbarossa.
The people of his region so loved him that at least one biographer (forgot which one, have read several) claimed that country villagers still confused him with Charlemagne, and knew the folk tales that he would one day return. This legend being known as late as the end of WWII. He seems to come closer having been a real "king Arthur" figure than most other kings. |
Do not include Northern Italian municipalities in the list .... at the siege of my town he used captive citizens as human shields on his siege machines.
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Gene Green
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| Posted: Mon 03 Nov, 2008 10:05 pm Post subject: |
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Interesting topic.
To me, the most impressive would be:
- Spanish and Portugese conquistadors. Far from being moral giants by any stretch of imagination, ruthless and greedy, but imagine - there's a couple hundred of you against a whole continent - and you set forth to conquer it all ! This took some major guts, arrogance, stamina, and military talent to match.
- Alexander the Great and his, relatively small, army. Same situation. Although in his case the odds were just a little bit better, so the Conquistadors take the first spot.
- Alexander Suvorov, the great Russian General who fought over 500 battles (IIRC) and hasn't lost one. He also beat Napoleon (although not decisively). I don't know of any other commander with such record.
- Chenghis Khan, who created one of the greatest armies and empires of all time basically from scratch.
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Daniel Staberg
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| Posted: Tue 04 Nov, 2008 2:41 am Post subject: |
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| Gene Green wrote: |
- Alexander Suvorov, the great Russian General who fought over 500 battles (IIRC) and hasn't lost one. He also beat Napoleon (although not decisively). I don't know of any other commander with such record.
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Suvorov never even fought Napoleon, let alone defeat him. Suvurov only fought the French in Italy&Switzerland in 1799, a time when Napoleon was in Egypt. The "500" battles calim is just as inaccurate I'm afraid. Suvorov was one of the Great Captains of history but in some instances his achivements have been exaggerated.
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Gene Green
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| Posted: Tue 04 Nov, 2008 6:08 am Post subject: |
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| Daniel Staberg wrote: |
Suvorov never even fought Napoleon, let alone defeat him. Suvurov only fought the French in Italy&Switzerland in 1799, a time when Napoleon was in Egypt. The "500" battles calim is just as inaccurate I'm afraid. Suvorov was one of the Great Captains of history but in some instances his achivements have been exaggerated. |
I stand corrected, poor choice of wording on my part - he beat Napoleon's army (Moreau ?).
As to 500 battles, this may be exaggerated but this is the number that somehow stuck in my mind. The quick search on the internet turns up "63 won battles and not one lost" but could they be only counting the major battles with him the high commander ? Anyway, my count is most likely off. But he does stand out among the rest, still.
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Raymond Deancona
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| Posted: Tue 04 Nov, 2008 10:30 am Post subject: |
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Philip II of Macedon, there would never have been Alexander except for the reforms of Philip. It was HIS army Alexander conquered with.
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Lafayette C Curtis
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| Posted: Fri 07 Nov, 2008 1:25 am Post subject: |
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Liu Bang. A bandit who founded a dynasty that gave its name to the whole mainstream Chinese ethnicity is certainly not somebody to be sneezed at. His general Han Xin (no connection to the name of the Han dynasty) is also a remarkable figure in his own right.
There are two rather enigmatic figures from later periods of Chinese history that have struck my interest--one is An Lushan, the Muslim(?) general whose rebellion brought about the decline of the Tang dynasty, and the other is Wu Sangui, who is popularly known to be the man who betrayed both his old masters (the Ming dynasty) and his new ones (the Manchu/QIng dynasty). As always, the truth about both men are a lot more complicated than popular history makes them, which is why their lives are so interesting.
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Bennison N
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| Posted: Fri 07 Nov, 2008 1:49 am Post subject: |
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There's lots and lots of Muslims in China... They have recognition as their own Min Zu minority, which is one of the most numerous of the 55 - The Hui Zu. Millions of them... One of my best girl-buddies is married to a Hui Zu guy.
The greatest weapon the Conquistador ever had was the diseases he brought with him from the Old World. Wiped out somewhere near to 90% of the native population, if I remember correctly...
Another interesting historical figure - Kim Il Sung, Korean hero during the Japanese Occupation (1910-1945), and first North Korean leader. Would've run the whole place by the people's choice if not for, *ahem*, US "opposition" to Marxist-inspired rule. Apparently the Number One, Most Wanted man by the Imperial Japanese Government during their expansion stage... His son is also sort of interesting, in a more  way... But nowhere near as much as he is himself, by far...
"Never give a sword to a man who can't dance" - Confucius
अजयखड्गधारी
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Sam Gordon Campbell
Location: Australia. Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Posts: 678
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| Posted: Sun 16 Nov, 2008 5:13 am Post subject: |
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I'd have to say William Wallace, Hannibal, Vercingetorix, Spartacus, Boudica, Jack Malcolm Thorpe Fleming Churchill and Ned Kelly lol.
Member of Australia's Stoccata School of Defence since 2008.
Host of Crash Course HEMA.
Founder of The Van Dieman's Land Stage Gladiators.
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