Hey everyone, i'm a new member!


I went to italy two weeks ago, and while i was in Capri, i bought a really nice replica Pompeii Gladius.

I take Shaolin Kung Fu, and in the class they teach you how to use a Chinese Dao Sword (and also possibly the Jian, but i havent seen anyone use it yet) and i wanted to know how the Roman Gladius was traditionally used, so i could test it out vs. the chinese swords.

I know how it was used as far as thrusting, but i have no idea how it was used asfar as parrying or cutting, and i was hoping that someone here could help me.

I plan on using it with a buckler, as it would seem to me that the Roman Scutum would be a tad bit unfair because i could pretty much block anything with it, and it covers pretty much your entire body, making it way too easy for me to win.

Thanx in advance.

Actually, now that i looked at the pictures of the three types of Gladii on this site, it looks to be more of a Mainz or a Fulham gladius, but i cant really see the difference well enough to pick out which one it is.

See, that is the problem. It really was made for use with a scutum sized target/shield

While we don't have any "fight books" on its use, the basics are this.

Cover yourself from the savage barbarian's giant slashing sword swing with your scutum. Parry, stab gladius into his belly.
Repeat :)

I don't think there is much out there officially about gladius use, nothing like Fiore or the Medieval treatises.

there was a great scene where one of the main characters was showing the young Octavius how to use a gladius. It seemed very user friendly. I don't know which episode the scene was in but it would be a good excuse to watch the show.

Lee

Having fought with simulated versions of same (tower shield/short sword) during boffer/LARP type combat, granted, not being "the same" but giving some clue..... in one on one, the tower shield/scutum is not swung around yourself like some other lighter shields. I used mine like an anchor and maneuvered myself, primarily, around it.

Those facing "the wall" hated it because it precluded most leg attacks, and i knew just how much deflection was needed to bounce of wrap shots. Team tactics was what tended to wipe me out, a well coordinated pair could take me down.

Haven't fought full-power full speed with rattan (SCA) using the same, but it has given me some minor insights.

As others have said, nothing about a fight is supposed to be "fair" and the Romans were even more "unfair" than most. If they had machine guns back then they'd have mowed down barbarians without a problem. While the gladius/scutum pair isn't my first pick for a one on one fight, an armored man with them who knows what he's about can definitely do well.

Hello,

First, I apologize for my bad english. Please make me know when you don't understand me :) .


So, I'm working with a small professional team on the Roman way of fighting during the first century before Christ. Our work is based on iconographies and ancient tales but also and especially on fighting experimentation.

At first, the main weapon of the roman legionary is...his scutum. This one is made on specific dimensions (110cm/70cm at the first BC) for specific fighting. The scutum is not a simple "protective wall" but a very effective weapon made for the percussions. The roman soldier used his scutum to hit his opponent with the "orle" (the edge?) at the head or at the knees if no shield or to block him on his shield. From this position the legionary could pass under his scutum to sever the leg of the opponent or thrust in the tibia or make the umbo hit the face of the opponent followed by a thrust in the carotyde or a cut.

We can see well this way of fighting on the Arc of Orange, showing roman legionaries beating their opponents with the edge of their scutum in "percutite". You can easily understand that a hit made with a scutum on the face don't need a gladius :) . There is an other clue of this way of fighting in the ludi gladiatori with a gladiator named "Provocator". This gladiator is nothing else than the equivalent of the roman legionary. He use roman scutum, a left ocrea, a pugio, a manica and a roman legionary helmet with a protective face to prevent the hit of scutum his the face. This gladiator fight in the same way than the roman legionary. It was the equivalent, and Marius' reform implicate a provocator training to all the roman legionaries by the lanista (gladiator coach) .

All his fighting is made of "percutite" finished by a stab with the pugio (also know as sica, a shorter blade than the gladius). This is an excellent experimentation of fighting for a better understood of war fighting. We can also understand why the scutum is concave. Its concavity make stand back the centre of gravity of the shield allowing the scutum to come to rest along the arm when tighten it. In this way, it's easier to hit his opponent with the edge.

Now we have to speak of the gladius. Of course, it's a weapon (massive compared to celtic sword) made for thrusting. About cutting, the roman way of fighting exclude the great cutting strike of medieval or celtic sword. Futhermore, the roman gionaries fight in close formation, that is an other point that exclude great cutting strike. In fact, if you want to cut, the only way is to use your gladius is like if you use a knive for cutting a piece of steak.

The roman scutum is the main weapon of the legionary and the gladius the weapon for finishing the work. It's not a chivalric or celtic or bushi weapon but a tool made for a very specific fighting.

http://www.acta-archeo.com/html/

The shield bash (percutite, if my translation is correct in understanding) is certainly an effective attack. Having done some training in riot tactics (which, with a riot-length baton, is very much in the Roman style), slamming your shield into someone can knock them clean off their feet, and a follow up to the body is easily done, assuming the formation did not just trample him to death. In my boffer/LARP experimentation shield bashing was not "legal" so I didn't include it, but I certainly know it works!

I wasn't in the SCA at the time......there are downsides to SCA combat, I know (as do others) but being able to fight full power in armor without pulling blows is still a hell of a lot of fun. It's not perfect and for safety reasons there are things we can't do, but i'm willing to work within those limits. I don't plan on fighting someone with live steel in armor, ever. I have guns for that, and I train real-world every day for it on the job.

Personally, I think both Xavier and David are right. The size and shape of the scutum makes cutting blows relatively awkward, not to mention that the gladius itself is short and hence won't develop as much cutting power as a longer-bladed sword along the limited cutting arcs available to a scutum-carrying legionary. But it's definitely true that the legionaries often found themselves in the situation where they had to use their swords without having recourse to the scutum as well. It would also be good to remember that the velites were an integral part of the legions at least up until the end of the 3rd century B.C., and these skirmishers frequently engaged in aggressive hand-to-hand combat with the gladii they carried in addition to their javelins and small shields. In fact, if I'm not mistaken, the account in Livy about the Macedonians being unnerved by the cutting wounds inflicted by the Roman swords was actually describing the aftermath of a brief skirmish between the opposing sides' cavalry and/or skirmishers.

Alex: Sorry sca doesnt do it for ya man :D ...I dig it for the simple reason that it is a big game.....I whack buddies with sticks and get drunk with them later that night......I will say though that it has drastically improved my reflexes and speed...I guess all those hours in armor and gauntlets has done some good. A couple of weeks ago I had to help a bartender and a doorman roust out a bunch of frat boys from my favorite watering hole.....I'm 39 and was just as drunk as these 20 somethings and They moved like their asses were set in stone, they telegraphed everything and had no concept of range....Didn't have to even really strike any of them, just kept bouncing them off each other and kind of swept them out the door. Personally, I reccomend sca just for theopportunity to move at full speed while weighted down with armor(ok, I don;t wear but around 30-40 pnds)....anyways, back to the topic.
Unless they were tortoised up, a roman soldier still had plenty of room for a quik chop to the wrist or elbow of his opponent along with a hocking stroke to the knee along with the hamstring cut......The thrust was dominant for many reasons though....It doesnt expend alot of energy, so they wouldnt wear out as quick....It only takes a few inches of thrust to mortally wound someone...In the scrum it is a lot harder to see a thrust coming at you vs a big looping cut my brave yet foolhardy ancestors favored.....
As for using a buckler with a gladius...why not? Like some one mentioned earlier, gladiators used them.....instead of a later period buckler, how about the shields the thraex figher used? I cannot remember it's name but it was a small curved rectangular shield.....that should protect you shield arm a little better and still have some offensive capability with the shield itself....I'm just concerned that a buckler without a longer blade to complment it is going to make you have to rush into range.....the thraex shield is just a little bigger (I'm guessing 16-18x20-22", with the curve in it it will still be a fairly small shield) and will protect your torso a bit better as you get in range.
Tell us how your sparring match works out...Good luck!
Thomas Watt: I've allways wondered about something concerning riot squads.....Has anybody ever considered a poll arm type device for supporting the shield guys? I was thinking along the lines of a light pole with 18-20" of flexible rubber at the end....just enough to REALLY sting...this would take some of the fire out of their bellies before they hit the shield wall.....maybe a nice safe blunt hook(like a shepards crutch)to help redirect their mass along with fouling up limbs?

It's worth noting that use of the pilum is tied closely to use of the gladius. A barbarian who's had to abandon his shield because a heavy, iron-headed pilum is stuck in it (making it impossible to move the shield quickly in combat) is a lot more vulnerable to a gladius thrust.