[Jim McDougall]

Thank you so much for the replies gentlemen! and thank you so much Jeff for your well explained comments!
As I noted earlier, these swords remain at best completely puzzling, and as Jeff perfectly included, the same issues with these mysterious needle points exist with the Tatar sabres and Black Sea yataghans.

It seems in trying to presume the dynamics of using the flyssa, as I noted the point seemed to imply mail piercing, and this has been the suggested application in a number of cases. Lebedynsky notes these distinct blades on Russian sabres in his "Armes le Caucasiennes et Cosaques" as 'malle perce' (mail piercing). Yet I must admit to thinking exactly what Jeff has noted in terms of whether these fragile points would actually withstand such use. I have simply gone along with what has been suggested in the literature and the colleagues I have mentioned in assuming the thrust use most likely.

The notes on the question of the flyssa's effectiveness for the thrust not only applies to the fragile point, but the distinct lack of protection or support for the hand in the awkward grip. In a powerful thrust, would there not be danger of the hand sliding forward onto the blade? In reconsidering the thrust, I think there might be problems in adequate control of these admittedly terribly balanced weapons.The suggestion that is commonly held that this is a cavalry weapon also brings to mind that the regions of Kabylia where these tribes are situated are topographically dynamic in terrain from rugged hills to mountainous areas seeminly not conducive to cavalry if I understand correctly. The only images I have ever seen of Kabyles are foot troops.

I really like this type of discussion in studying weapons, where all bring in ideas and observations and sort of put all cards on the table. Whether we arrive at conclusions or not, I think we all gain a better understanding of the weapon we are focused on, especially as seen in the participation here.

All best regards,
Jim

P.S. Shayan .....plz call me Jim OK? I'm old, but I aint that old!!

[Anders Backlund]

[Bennison N]

Anders,

What kind of Jian/Gim (the difference is that "Gim" come from Cantonese speaking regions, BTW...) is he using that has no hand protection? And how is he using it that makes it "thrust-oriented"? I find Jian to be a sword that does every type of technique well... It might be the forms he practices, maybe...

I'm interested in exactly why everyone has called this flyssa sword awkward. What exactly makes it feel so unwieldly? And the way the pommel end of the handle is shaped reminds me of Greek Kopises, which are very good at cutting. Apparently they are that way to keep the sword in the hand after jarring blows. The handle, not having a counterweight for the blade in the form of a pommel, may explain the awkwardness, especially in the longer ones. It seems odd that if they are rather unwieldly that no-one tried to improve the overall design to make the handling more comfortable... The steel used seems quite good, the decoration is simplistic and attractive, design features like the curious points came to be... Why did no-one add something heavy on the end to balance the long blade against the short handle?

So do we know how widespread throughout the Kabyles these weapons were? Did every man of age, or of war, carry one? Or are there other types of swords from this region and these peoples? There's certainly a lot of examples of flyssa around, it seems. Could they be, in some way or another, held in the type of reverance Indonesian Keris are, or Sikh Kirpans? A symbol of a class, like Katana?

These really are very interesting weapons, aren't they? Unfortunately, I was unable to find anyone who owns a traditionally made or antique one here in NZ, otherwise I would have had a play by now to see what I can tell about them.

[Jim McDougall]

Interesting points on the use of the flyssa, which I have noted has been the topic of considerable speculation with no published accounts or narratives that I am aware of decribing them in use. I am not in any way well versed in any of the martial arts (obviously other than an extremely brief course in fencing over 30 yrs ago, so I cannot speak with any particular authority on the dynamics of this sword. However, in holding the one I had, which was indeed quite long, the sword itself seemed extremely heavy and ill balanced in simply holding it straight and pointed forward. I suppose that when the sword was in motion, the dynamics of force may be differently applied.
(I didn't really try swinging it after the unfortunate Drambuie drinking, tulwar swinging event, which took out the ceiling fan in my den!

Another area which eludes me is metallurgy, but the heavy blade on these does seem of high quality and well forged , much like I perceive good Solingen blades.

It does seem that these flyssa are not only indiginous to Kabyle regions of Algeria, but seem to have remained distinctly in those areas and appear not to have diffused elsewhere.Contrary to these,many other weapon forms in Africa seem to have in many instances spread widely via trade routes. It is interesting that Stone considered the flyssa Moroccan, which seems surprising as I am not aware of examples from there, and I have often wondered how he arrived at that conclusion. Since the tribes in the areas that include the Iflyssen were nominally Sunni Muslims of Malakite Rite I believe, with Moroccan locations as its center, I thought maybe that might have some connection to the Stone reference. Possibly some of these did travel west to Morocco with that consideration?

It does seem that the flyssa was, much as in so many cases in tribal cultures, very much revered. This seems quite evident in the distinct symbolism carried in the motif and symbolism in the consistant examples following traditional design. The acquisition of the flyssa also appears to have been a kind of rite of passage for young men in these regions, to make his fortune, acquire his sword and then take a wife. Interestingly though, it seems that the Ottoman yataghan was a very sought after weapon as well, and in discussions over the years I recall instances of flyssas with sort of a hybrid yataghan type hilt that must have been custom made with this in mind.

For me, beyond the mysteries of how these were used, where they actually derived thier design, how widespread was the use, what are the earliest examples, and how late were these made........remains the symbolism in the decorative motif.
I think these are the things that keep these elusive weapons so fascinating!

[Anders Backlund]