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Mark G.
Industry Professional



Location: WI
Joined: 17 Feb 2005

Posts: 74

PostPosted: Sat 26 Apr, 2008 9:48 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Sorry, you're right. I could have addressed more than I did. I was just trying offer a possible explanation on one aspect, hopefully without stepping on Albion's toes. I really don't know anything about what they may or may not be doing with these swords since the time I had worked on them.

The langet area was always an area to watch out for, when fitting the guard onto the blade. Sometimes, castings have a mind of their own and turn out slightly crooked or whatever. A gap between the langets and blade wasn't a terribly difficult problem to fix though, if you're watching out for it during the assembly. New molds or not, that problem has been around since these recreations started.

All that I can say is that the runes appear to be different, comparing pictures of your sword to that of Alex's or the myArmoury reviewed Atlantean, but you already noticed that. I do apologize, but that is literally all I wish to say on the matter.

I can't offer much on the Father Sword guard, except that you should bring it, and your other concerns, to Albion's attention, if it bothers you.

www.ollinsworddesign.com
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Alex Oster




Location: Washington and Yokohama
Joined: 01 Mar 2004

Posts: 410

PostPosted: Sat 26 Apr, 2008 10:15 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

As I stated, my engraving are smooth and sandy, not filled with lines. Both sword's engravings look the same.
The pen is mightier than the sword, especially since it can get past security and be stabbed it into a jugular.
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Chris Boler





Joined: 25 Apr 2008

Posts: 13

PostPosted: Sun 27 Apr, 2008 6:16 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Mark, thanks for your input. I welcome any insight into this issue.

Alex, thanks again. I know you stated that early about the engraving, but I wasn't sure if you were talking about both swords or just the Atlantean then.

Thanks guys, Chris
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Darrin Hughes




Location: England
Joined: 22 Jun 2007
Reading list: 20 books

Posts: 228

PostPosted: Sun 27 Apr, 2008 6:37 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Alex, and anyone else who may be interested, I've just taken a quick shot of my Marto Atlantean, as you were wondering what it looked like in comparison. As you will notice, the Marto and Conan logos are clearly marked on the blade, just below the runes. The runes look like they have been electro-etched, as the finish is similar to that on the early Albions, without the heavy parallel lines, which look to me like they have been machined. To be honest, if the sword is viewed from the other side, where there are no maker's marks, and from any sort of distance, then to my eyes it is difficult to tell the difference between this and the early Albion's.

Cheers,
Darrin.



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J Anstey





Joined: 21 Jul 2007

Posts: 233

PostPosted: Mon 28 Apr, 2008 3:26 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Chris Boler wrote:
Jason and Alex, do the engravings on your Fathers swords look like mine?

Chris


my "fathers" has the horizontal lines in the engravings

Cheers

Jason
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Howard Waddell
Industry Professional



Location: Wisconsin, USA
Joined: 18 Aug 2003

Posts: 717

PostPosted: Mon 28 Apr, 2008 2:50 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

First of all, let me apologize for not addressing this sooner. I am not on the forums much anymore.

If you have an issue, please contact us first. We are always happy to address any issues you might have, and if no resolution is possible, take the sword back.

We are not perfect, we sometimes make mistakes and overlook some errors before it leaves the shop. We take pride in the fact that we have maintained a very low return/repair rate (less than 1.5% all-told since 2005, out of as many as 1,500 swords a year), because it is very important to us that each sword meets or exceeds our customer's expectations.

The issue with the "lines" at the base of the engravings is a sand-blast issue. After they are engraved, the un-heat-treated blades are sand-blasted to remove uneven areas or imperfections in the engravings. On some of these swords that step was not performed and again, we are happy to correct any of these errors if this bothers you. It will entail building a new sword, as sand-blasting after heat-treating and grinding is not possible.

On some issues, such as the skull "gap" on the Master's/Father's swords, that is the way the original was made. It was Director Milus' desire that the sword look barbaric and, in some ways "rudely" made. It was not our intention to change some of these basic features, in order to bring you an accurate recreation of the original. Some variation in the casting stage will invariably cause some minor differences, but the fact is that one skull is slightly off centerline in the mold and the original sword.

Please contact Mike at quest@albion-swords.com and he will be happy to resolve any issues you have.

Best regards,

Howy

Albion Swords Ltd
http://albion-swords.com
http://filmswords.com
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J Anstey





Joined: 21 Jul 2007

Posts: 233

PostPosted: Mon 28 Apr, 2008 7:09 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

... well, I received my response from Albion and they are prepared to fix the issues, but I have to pay for shipping - meaning I will be paying $3700 for a $3300 sword and probably have to wait another 6-9 months???. I also had to pay $450 shipping and customs duty so it really makes it $3745 and $4150. I wonder if I have reason to feel disappointed?

They said they would refund my money if I sent it back and cancel the Atlantean.

I don't want to cancel, all I want is to get what I have paid a large amount of money for.

I also appreciate that there are many processes in producing a sword and human error can come into it.

I am at a loss to work out why I have to pay out money to correct something that never should have passed through quality control.

The above is all based on these issues.

1. Is the gap on my sword correct, it appears to be different from the one in the picture on the website?
2. Are the runes meant to have the parallel line? Mine does
3. Will by sword/s be of lesser value due to the above?
4. Will the Atlantean have the same quality issues?

Cheers

Jason
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Jean Thibodeau




Location: Montreal,Quebec,Canada
Joined: 15 Mar 2004
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PostPosted: Mon 28 Apr, 2008 7:44 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

J Anstey wrote:
... well, I received my response from Albion and they are prepared to fix the issues, but I have to pay for shipping - meaning I will be paying $3700 for a $3300 sword and probably have to wait another 6-9 months???. I also had to pay $450 shipping and customs duty so it really makes it $3745 and $4150. I wonder if I have reason to feel disappointed?



I would check with your countrie's customs to find out if you can be credited for taxes and duties already paid as you are sending it back for repair/replacement: Some export documents showing that you are shipping it back that would be included in the return package so that you shouldn't have to pay customs twice ? Most countries have paperwork when valuables are taken out of the country that one can show when coming back and prove that it's personal property that shouldn't be taxed again each time one brings it back. ( Think valuables like jewellery, expensive electronics etc ... ).

Checking with a customs broker in your country to handle the export and re-importation paperwork is a possibility.

Now if the custom brokerage fees are less than just paying the taxes/duties a second time it might be worth it.

Maybe Albion could take care of handling the paperwork from their end or at least do some research about it ?

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Alex Oster




Location: Washington and Yokohama
Joined: 01 Mar 2004

Posts: 410

PostPosted: Mon 28 Apr, 2008 8:07 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Howard Waddell wrote:
On some issues, such as the skull "gap" on the Master's/Father's swords, that is the way the original was made. It was Director Milus' desire that the sword look barbaric and, in some ways "rudely" made.


I'm glad to see a response. I am surprised about this comment though. It was clearly not how mine turned out. I don't want to argue, but I have to say that the claim seems fairly dis proven by three examples in this thread. I really have to side with the the gap not being on the original and caused by what looks like slag on the casting. I'm no expert, and I don't want to rub salt in a wound. It is however, very different from the one I own in both spacing and grooves. It appears this one slipped by them.

The more I look at the Atlantean hilts here, the more I see a lot of differences. Mine is rough and "barbaric" but the one I see is smooth and crisp. Is that the Marto version thats defective on the langets? Is that lacquer I see in the grooves of the second pic here? Now I am truly confused.

The pen is mightier than the sword, especially since it can get past security and be stabbed it into a jugular.
This site would be better if everytime I clicked submit... I got to hear a whip crack!
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Darrin Hughes




Location: England
Joined: 22 Jun 2007
Reading list: 20 books

Posts: 228

PostPosted: Mon 28 Apr, 2008 9:54 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Alex. Chris may want to confirm this, but I think the defective langets are on his Albion Atlantean. The castings on my Marto Atlantean appear to have been cleaned up a little compared to the original, and whilst the extended ricasso is slightly assymetrical at the very end, there is no problem with the fit which is flush with the blade. It does in fact look a lot like the upside-down picture that you posted of your own sword.
Hope that helps.
Cheers,
Darrin.

btw, I know that the hilt of my Marto is not proper bronze, the blade is stainless steel, and it isn't hollow-ground, but for £225 I'm not complaining.
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Jeremy V. Krause




Location: Buffalo, NY.
Joined: 20 Oct 2003
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PostPosted: Mon 28 Apr, 2008 11:15 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

If I may be so bold- I feel that Albion should pay for the shipping though it would be expensive for them,

As a comparison I have a teeny weeny issue with a piece from a manufacturer in Europe and they offered to pay for my shipping to them without me even asking.

It is about maintaining an excellent name to correspond to the excellent products that Albion produces, but I am no businessman. Howie has stated an exemplary record with product repair requests thus such a gesture would further the fine name of this company- of which I will certainly continue to be a loyal customer (well for swords dating between 1050-1275
Wink that is

Jeremy


Last edited by Jeremy V. Krause on Mon 28 Apr, 2008 11:21 pm; edited 1 time in total
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J Anstey





Joined: 21 Jul 2007

Posts: 233

PostPosted: Mon 28 Apr, 2008 11:18 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jean Thibodeau wrote:
J Anstey wrote:
... well, I received my response from Albion and they are prepared to fix the issues, but I have to pay for shipping - meaning I will be paying $3700 for a $3300 sword and probably have to wait another 6-9 months???. I also had to pay $450 shipping and customs duty so it really makes it $3745 and $4150. I wonder if I have reason to feel disappointed?



I would check with your countrie's customs to find out if you can be credited for taxes and duties already paid as you are sending it back for repair/replacement: Some export documents showing that you are shipping it back that would be included in the return package so that you shouldn't have to pay customs twice ? Most countries have paperwork when valuables are taken out of the country that one can show when coming back and prove that it's personal property that shouldn't be taxed again each time one brings it back. ( Think valuables like jewellery, expensive electronics etc ... ).

Checking with a customs broker in your country to handle the export and re-importation paperwork is a possibility.

Now if the custom brokerage fees are less than just paying the taxes/duties a second time it might be worth it.

Maybe Albion could take care of handling the paperwork from their end or at least do some research about it ?


Thanks Jean.

There is only one set of import duties that is payable - which equates to 10% of the sale price. There would be no issue of me paying that again if it was sent for repairs.

If I was returning it as a reject then I probably could apply for a refund and then have to pay it again when the replacement was sent through.

Cheers

Jason
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J Anstey





Joined: 21 Jul 2007

Posts: 233

PostPosted: Mon 28 Apr, 2008 11:53 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

thanks again to everyone for their support.

I feel that I am in a lose lose situation here, which is quite upsetting. I have paid top dollar for a top quality product from a top quality company.

I have contacted the company and the only way I can get these issues fixed is for me to spend more money and send it back.

I had hoped that they would have said - "sorry about this, it appears we have made a mistake - we'll take care of it"

It seems very black and white that there are aspects of Chris's and my sword/s that have slipped through.

I am sure it will all be resolved, they do seem to be a very well run business and I am sure this is just a hic-up in the production processes.
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Alex Oster




Location: Washington and Yokohama
Joined: 01 Mar 2004

Posts: 410

PostPosted: Tue 29 Apr, 2008 7:35 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I went trough the same thing when I had issues with a bent atlantean. i was really shocked/insulted that hey expected me to cover shipping. However, it was only $50 for me. But overall, they can't be beat as a company. Its too bad that their QC and customer satisfaction policy is not up to their own expectations. I'm not wanting to sound attacking or bashing. I really do feel that this is only 10% off the overall "A" grade one would give them. I'm glad they have held on as long as they have, and I hope they can continue to surprise us with their efforts.

I hope you can get this resolved, you really won't be unhappy once you have them in your hands as they should be. I know I'm not.

The pen is mightier than the sword, especially since it can get past security and be stabbed it into a jugular.
This site would be better if everytime I clicked submit... I got to hear a whip crack!
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J Anstey





Joined: 21 Jul 2007

Posts: 233

PostPosted: Tue 29 Apr, 2008 7:52 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

THanks Alex

I hope it can be sorted as well, however I am getting the feeling that I have become an annoyance and easier to refund than to fix and make happy?

The bottom line is that I only want what is advertised - nothing more. I am not looking to find faults. I totally accept that it is meant to be a barbarians sword and should not be perfect in every aspect.

I also agree that they are an A-grade company and offer a unique an high end product. Problems can occur in production, especially when deadlines are trying to be met and there is no doubt that they would be very busy fulfilling orders since the license finished.

I am still hoping for an amicable resolution.

cheers

Jason
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Howard Waddell
Industry Professional



Location: Wisconsin, USA
Joined: 18 Aug 2003

Posts: 717

PostPosted: Tue 29 Apr, 2008 10:09 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

This has been a very interesting discussion.

Ulitmately, all I can say is that we are always happy to rectify anything the customer is unhappy with, to the best of our ability. However, these swords are what they are - recreations of original pieces that would not stand up to the scrutiny that is being applied here. They have their flaws, many of which we did correct, as long as it did not violate the integrity of the original.

Minor variations are always going to happen, however. Even though we use the same original mold, each wax pours slightly differently, each wax has to be restored and in some cases assembled by hand, each wax casts slightly differently, each part and each sword is cleaned up slightly differently. These are not stamped out or made of materials that are more forgiving. These are real swords, made of real sword-making materials, by real people trying to do their best every time.

A certain Governor of a large state has ordered probably 2 dozen of these swords, right off the assembly line that yours came off of - one of them sits in a special box on his conference table in his office. I am sure that if he took a micrometer to his, he'd find things wrong with it.

Mistakes happen. But we are always willing to take a sword back and meet the customer's expectations if we can. If not, we give the customer a refund.

If you have a problem with your sword, send it back. We will either fix it (and we give priority to repairs), or give you a refund.

In some cases, we may just give you a refund, because we still have over 200 of these we need to make before the contract runs out in just a few months, and there are additional people on waiting lists that would like a chance to get one if we can make it before the deadline.

We don't want any customer unhappy with their sword. This was a labor of love for us to bring back these swords that were, in a sense, lost (even the Marto swords would not exist today if we had not started this project). These are very difficult swords to make, and very, very, very expensive swords to make. But, ultimately, they are what they are. If you want a sword that is just like the one that Conan carried in the film - even with its flaws - then this is the sword for you. If you want a re-engineered sword made of more forgiving materials, that would meet some factory specifications every time, I would suggest that you might be happier with a Marto.

Best,

Howy

Albion Swords Ltd
http://albion-swords.com
http://filmswords.com
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J Anstey





Joined: 21 Jul 2007

Posts: 233

PostPosted: Tue 29 Apr, 2008 6:39 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks for your response Howard.

Again I will say that I think you have an A-list company that does bring dreams to reality and I thank you for this.

I do not want a refund, I know this would be the easy option, but I decided some time ago that I wanted this set of Albion swords and I still do. I appreciate the offer to rectify the situation albeit at my expense for shipping.

I appreciate that they are hand made and each is different. I am not looking at putting a sword under a micrometer or being hyper critical however I think that the majority of people on this thread agree that I have reason to be aggrieved and the areas of concern are significant.

1. If I bite the bullet and send it back at my expense can the runes and overly large gap issue be rectified on the Fathers Sword?

2. Can you ensure that the runes and the no-stepped molding on the forthcoming Atlantean appear the same or similar to what appears on your website taking into account the fact that they are hand done and will all have minor individual characteristics?

I kind of wish now that I didn't ask the question as I could have remained blissfully ignorant in thinking that my sword/s were as good from ones that had been made before and were equally as valuable from an investment point of view.

Cheers

Jason
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Whitney Hastings




Location: New York
Joined: 28 Jan 2008

Posts: 3

PostPosted: Tue 29 Apr, 2008 9:38 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Personally ,after having read all of the posts, not to seem rude, but get over it. Yes, I realize that you have paid a lot of money for a sword that many people dream of having, but the one thing you need to remember is that this is a recreation of a sword. It even states on Albion's website "Each sword is painstakingly re-created, with solid bronze fittings cast from the original molds. " This means the swords are re-created like the movie sword, which means that if there was a gap, you will have one as well. If you don't want the gap, then that is yet another step away from having a sword like the one Arnold wielded in the film.

Secondly, why should Albion have to pay for your shipping when you want these things fixed? Yes, I realize that you think they did a less then stellar job on your sword, but the fact still remains that YOU are the one who wants things changed. The company is more than willing to make the changes for you, free of charge on your part, so why can't that be enough?

Thirdly, when did people begin to expect everything they own to be perfect? Do you crack your computer open when you receive it to make sure that everything is symmetrical and nothing is out of place? Things that are hand-made are not going to be perfect, and you can't expect them to be. I personally have two swords from this company, and each one has flaws in it. These flaws make me love the swords even more because it means that it's not the same as someone else's. It wasn't mass produced, each person left a small imprint on the sword. It makes me appreciate that this company does TRY to make things as flawless as they can, but that it isn't possible at the same time. A little piece of each of these craftsmen is left on my swords, and I wouldn't want to have it any other way.

I'm sorry that you are not happy with the level of craftsmanship on your sword, but when it comes down to it there is one main thing to remember, there are people in this world that would DIE to have an Albion, a Conan especially. While your on a forum posting about how disappointed you are in your sword, I and many others would be more than proud of the product I received, and would stop acting like a spoiled child who didn't get their way.
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Alex Oster




Location: Washington and Yokohama
Joined: 01 Mar 2004

Posts: 410

PostPosted: Tue 29 Apr, 2008 10:29 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'm sorry, but I really feel that post was uncool. I have nothing to gain by what i am about to say, but I'm surprised to be the only one who is willing to risk making Albion unhappy at them to stand for whats right.

First off, I have proven that they don't "all" come with this gap that looks very much a piece of slag that was over looked during the finishing process that also failed to clean up the grooves on the exact same sword. If it were one or the other, hey, fine, maybe a small quirk. But both just show that this one slipped through the cracks. I DO NOT buy the idea that this is an after effect of being "hand made". Its simply an after effect of either a new employee, a rushed order, or a missed final inspection. Simple as that and not a big deal. Just something that you have to accept and fix. If you order a brand new car and it comes with a fender out of alignment, you will definitely go back and expect it to be corrected. This isn't a mass produced item, and that is EXACTLY why I would expect better service. This is simply something that should have been seen during all the "hands on" work and fixed before shipping. One look and I saw it was not correct, and thats just comparing it to mine. If I had made over 100 of these, then I would know exactly how this should look. I really don't see any excuse. The company did not ship the customer the product he ordered. The item is significantly different than pictured on the site, and it simply doesn't look like the quality one expects from such a great company.

It may be a "minor gap", but if your hood didn't sit flush it would be equally important.

I'm not saying that albion is a bad company or that they are big meanies, but I am siding with the customer on this. I'm sorry if I step on Albions toes over this, but it hard to sit back and play apathetic to the issue. The company is great, but I can't suck up to them and abide a customer being shrugged at as spoiled or too picky. I'd have been unhappy as well. Am I spoiled because I have both the swords? Hardly, at the time I bough them they cost me two months pay each. I struggled to order them, but was very happy with the product and service I got.

As for acting like a spoiled child who didn't get his way.... totally uncalled for. The customer is NOT always right, but the customer is STILL the customer. They should be treated properly. If I painted pictures of a black haired barbarian, but shipped you a blond... you would be unhappy too. I can't hide behind "each one is individually hand painted". I showed one thing and sold another. It should fall on me to correct the mistake at my expense due to my error. Thats why I always hand inspect everything i have ever sold. No matter if its something I made or something mass produced and shipped to me first. Before I get an unhappy customer I make sure they get what they expect. Thats what Customer service is all about. Albion knows this, and they excel at being a totally cool company to order from. But one must step up when one drops the ball. IMHO...

I'm not pointing fingers and telling anyone what to do. I am just stating my view on a situation that has been presented. Regardless who is involved.

I wish I was still in a position to order more from them, but hobbies, habits, and lifestyles change... Oh, and girlfriends are expensive!
Worried

The pen is mightier than the sword, especially since it can get past security and be stabbed it into a jugular.
This site would be better if everytime I clicked submit... I got to hear a whip crack!
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Whitney Hastings




Location: New York
Joined: 28 Jan 2008

Posts: 3

PostPosted: Tue 29 Apr, 2008 11:57 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'm sorry you feel my post was uncool, but that was my personal opinion and you do not have to agree with it. I truly am sorry that he doesn't like the quality of service that he received from Albion.

You may have proven that not all of them come with a gap like his sword did, but as can clearly be seen on the sword picture on the Albion website, the sword has a gap. I believe in one of his posts he even said that he wanted the sword to be of the same quality that the pictured one was, well, it is in terms of looking at the pictures. Quite honestly, you don't have to buy the whole 'it's like this because it was hand-made," but that is was Albion has to say in response to the question he asked them, and that's that. They did not tell him that he had to believe it, but that was their reason for the problem he was having.

As for your comment about buying a brand new car and there was a flaw in the fender alignment, you wouldn't drive back to the company and expect them to fix the flaw as well as pay for your gas to get there. Unfortunately, no one has taken the time to read the Albion Guarantee on their website, to refresh everyone's memory

"Great care was taken in the making and assembly of your Albion sword. However, even with the pains taken to seal and stabilize all of the organic materials used, extremes in temperature and humidity can sometimes create small expansions and shrinkage that lead to potential loosening of the hilt. Although rare, should this occur we offer refurbishment and repair by our shop at no cost to you apart from return shipping."

Albion clearly states the the consumer has to pay for the return shipping.

The only thing that bothers me about your reply back was your statement that he was shrugged off by the company and spoiled or too picky. No where in any of the statements that Howy Waddell had made has he ever stated such a comment. J stated they would be prepared to fix the issues with the sword or he was more than welcome to get a refund. It was MY personal opinion that he was being picky which had NOTHING to do with the company's opinion. I would just like to clarify because I do not want this company getting a reputation for something I, a consumer, stated.

I truly am sorry that he is unhappy with the quality of his product, I wish for the money he paid that he would be happy. In the end, he has gotten his answer from the company on several different levels, Mike's response, the guarantee, and from Howy. He may not like it, but the response he got he needs to accept as the company's response because no matter the amount of complaining or nitpicking, their response will probably still be the same.

Just a reminder, this is *MY* opinion and should no way be taken as the opinion of anyone else or this company.
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