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Chad Arnow
myArmoury Team
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 Posted: Wed 19 Mar, 2008 11:22 am Post subject: Re: Sabre |
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| Mark Williamson wrote: | | How is depeeka's quality? I only ask becasue their prices seem to be more in line with wall hangers. |
I owned a Depeeka sword early in my collecting days and have handled more at a local Ren Faire. In my opinion, they are a notch or two below Windlass/MRL in terms of quality. Some pieces are more than a notch or two below WIndlass.
That said, their Roman stuff appears to be better than much of the rest of their stuff, because they've used the input of a respected authority on Roman stuff.
ChadA
http://chadarnow.com/
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James E Mitchell
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| Posted: Fri 21 Mar, 2008 11:17 am Post subject: blade presence |
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Hi there,
My brother studies Hungarian sabre from the grandson of a Hussar drillmaster -- that blade presence Chris speaks of is there for a reason. Heavy sabre is not the same as modern sport sabre -- the presence and "opinionation"(sp?) of the blade are good things. A nice hungarian saber really *wants* you to swing it.
Jim
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Colin F.
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| Posted: Fri 21 Mar, 2008 1:19 pm Post subject: Re: Sabre |
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| Mark Williamson wrote: | | Nathan M Wuorio wrote: | Might I recommend a Cossack Shashka? I have an original, but Deepeeka makes one for a very reasonable price.
If you go to www.by-the-sword.com they have a large selection of Deepeeka swords, including an entire page full of sabres.
[ I forgot to mention the price, which is $144.00]
Hope you find what your looking for. |
How is depeeka's quality? I only ask becasue their prices seem to be more in line with wall hangers. |
I've handled a 1796 LC that was apparently made by Deepeeka, compared to the originals it was a boat anchor. The originals that I have handled had very obvious distal taper (i.e. the blade was thicker at the shoulder and very thin at the broad cutting tip). The Deepeeka model had the taper but it was at least 2mm thicker at all points down the blade. This made it very blade heavy and virtually useless. If you want it too look pretty, it's fine and for the price, it is well made, but it you want to actually do something with it, I would wear a LOT of wrist support...
Colin
Melchett - "In short, a German spy is giving away every one of our battle plans."
Cpt. Darling - "You look surprised, Blackadder."
Edmund - "I cerainly am, sir. I didn't realise we had any battle plans."
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Glen A Cleeton
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| Posted: Fri 21 Mar, 2008 10:42 pm Post subject: |
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I own just one India produced sabre but it seems to follow the same rule of thumb that many reproductions of that area do. That is the lack of or compromise in distal taper. rather than the complex distal one will see in period 18th and 19th century swords, india produced reproductions tend to shoot for an average easily obtained with standard stock thicknesses. if there is distal taper at all, it is usually quite linear but still leaves the foibles quite thick. A difference of a couple of millimeters is often all you'll see. Compare that to some measurments I made of a circa 1800 sword recently.
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Nine mm, or roughly 3/8" at the blade shoulder, it reduces to six mm within the width of a hand and then is just five mm (or 3/16") at the mid way point. This is also where the fuller is feathering out and the blade goes to an even more width diminishing lenticular crossection. Thickness from the end of the fuller to the tip runs from 4mm to barely 1 1/2 mm (or 1/16") at the very tip
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Now, that wasn't a sabre but indicative of the complex distal tapers you just will not find in mass produced reproductions.
I know Jonathan Hopkins has posted some measurements of a 1796 cavalry sword and even originals will vary some but the diffrence between then and now is quite significant.
As to the Military Heritage swords, it seems the source has come to light in the past year or so. the site used to even fly the drilling officer animated gif but the site had updayed since I first saw it via Indiamart.
www.weaponedge.com
in direct communication with them, someone related the steel is equivilant to asi 1040 and tempered quite soft but springy. the actual number was a bit startling (high 30s hrc) yet the manufacturer indicated they had been doing sabres that way for forty years. if nothing else, they will sharpen pretty easily.
Cheers
GC
Oh yes, here is my India produced sabre. A take on the College Hill Arsenal foot officer sword. Also a picture of an original that they were shooting for. Bear in mind the angle of perspective is a bit different.
http://usera.imagecave.com/Hotspur/Other/lcsch.jpeg
http://usera.imagecave.com/Hotspur/Other/Medi...d-copy.jpg
http://usera.imagecave.com/Hotspur/Other/MedicusCSAtag.jpg
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Ross Tippin
Location: Philadelphia Joined: 23 Oct 2006
Posts: 9
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| Posted: Mon 24 Mar, 2008 8:04 pm Post subject: |
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Does anyone here have any experience handling the military heritage/weaponedge.com military swords? Someone stated above that they aren't heat treated very hard (H.R.C. high 30s). Is this typical of 18th and 19th swords, or is it low? Also, does anybody know how well they handle and if they are fairly accurate re weight and balance?
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Shahril Dzulkifli
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| Posted: Tue 25 Mar, 2008 9:25 am Post subject: Good Sabre |
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Maybe I should recommend this British Cavalry Officer’s Presentation Sabre from 1806. Any suggestions?
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Shayan G
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| Posted: Tue 25 Mar, 2008 5:14 pm Post subject: |
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Gorgeous sword Mr. Dzulkifli, but I have some doubts as to how available that is for casual purchase to use in sword drills.
You have to be a man, first, before you can be a gentleman!
~the immortal John Wayne
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Vadim Palshin
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| Posted: Wed 26 Mar, 2008 8:48 am Post subject: |
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Ross:
If all Military Heritage swords are like mine 1822 Light Cavalry Trooper's Sabre (and they probably are) - they don't handle very well, but should be usable. The weight of my pattern 1822 is about 2 lbs, not too heavy - but an original sabre of the same weight would be a few inches longer, about 35" vs. ~32" on mine; see this description of an original saber: http://www.algonet.se/~enda/vm_1822_eng.htm. It balanced at about 7.5" - again, worse that an original would, and with a shorter blade! Obviously, the distal taper is not sufficient to make the saber work as it should. One can still use it for solo drills (I did), and I did have some fun with it until a better custom sword arrived.
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Jonathan Hopkins
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| Posted: Wed 26 Mar, 2008 9:19 am Post subject: |
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| Shayan G wrote: | | Gorgeous sword Mr. Dzulkifli, but I have some doubts as to how available that is for casual purchase to use in sword drills. |
Your doubts are valid!
Jonathan
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Morgan Butler
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| Posted: Wed 26 Mar, 2008 11:17 am Post subject: |
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I agree, though I think for sale vintage swords, that one might find on e-bay at a reasonable price make for a good topic. I put my 1861 austrian sabre on this topic earlier as a moderate priced example. No doubt it is less heretical to use a repro. And certainly we wouldnt use a side-arm that belonged to Marshal Ney or Wellington for cutting practice. Not at least without a few drinks anyway!
inkothemgard!
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Konstantin Tsvetkov
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| Posted: Wed 26 Mar, 2008 2:09 pm Post subject: |
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The main advantage of vintage swords is that those were manufactured for use in combat and tested by people, familiar with the subject. I wouldn't use for practice a sword, worth 5400$, but one can still find a mid 19th century cavalry sabre for a price of a replica. Mine costed me 285 £, the one on the picture is up for sale right now for 300 Euro.
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Shahril Dzulkifli
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| Posted: Sun 06 Apr, 2008 5:21 am Post subject: Good Sabre |
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Here is a British Infantry Officer's Sword from 1803. I think this one is ideal for practicing outdoors.
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Nikolay Yermolenko
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| Posted: Sun 06 Apr, 2008 10:25 am Post subject: Re: Good Sabre |
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Sorry, it was wrong to put it here.
To nie sztuka zabić kruka, to nie sprawa dla zolnerza, ale sztuka całkiem śmieża gołą dupą zabić jeża.
Last edited by Nikolay Yermolenko on Mon 07 Apr, 2008 3:01 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Morgan Butler
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Jonathan Hopkins
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| Posted: Mon 07 Apr, 2008 9:13 am Post subject: |
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Nikolay,
I think that you have the Prussian version, the M1811 "Blucher" saber. The scabbard is certainly Prussian.
Jonathan
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Nikolay Yermolenko
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| Posted: Mon 07 Apr, 2008 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Jonathan Hopkins wrote: | Nikolay,
I think that you have the Prussian version, the M1811 "Blucher" saber. The scabbard is certainly Prussian.
Jonathan |
Thank you, Jonathan!
I'll try to move this to the Market Place, it was not right to put it here. Sorry. You see, I'm not into West European weapons myself, I collect Talwars , Shamshirs, Khybers, Dhas and such. So I am trying to trade or sell this one in order to get something more to my liking.
Nikolay
To nie sztuka zabić kruka, to nie sprawa dla zolnerza, ale sztuka całkiem śmieża gołą dupą zabić jeża.
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Shahril Dzulkifli
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| Posted: Mon 12 May, 2008 4:58 pm Post subject: Good Sabre |
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An Imperial German N.C.O. Cavalry Sabre from 1870. Impressive-looking blade.
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Shayan G
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| Posted: Mon 12 May, 2008 8:10 pm Post subject: Re: Good Sabre |
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| Shahril Dzulkifli wrote: |
An Imperial German N.C.O. Cavalry Sabre from 1870. Impressive-looking blade. |
Antiques seem inadvisable for use in cutting, which is a requirement of the original poster.
| Mark Williamson wrote: | Hi all Im a noob here so I hope this is in the right place. Im looking for a good cutting sabre which is quick enough to practise with. (alone of course) Id like to be able to practise both moulinets and feints as well as I would in a duel while still being able to practise cutting with it as well.
Ive read some good things about the cold steel and windlass 1796 patterns but Im wondering if anyone practising WMA here can recoomend anything? |
Best regards,
Shayan
You have to be a man, first, before you can be a gentleman!
~the immortal John Wayne
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Hugh Fuller
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| Posted: Tue 13 May, 2008 9:50 am Post subject: |
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May I suggest that you try contacting http://www.chevalierdauvergne.com/ It is my understanding that their sabers are all combat ready and that they are not modern reproductions but modern continuations of the models made to the same standards as the originals with forged blades and full tangs as well as the superb detail work. I should be very curious to know if what I have heard is true.
Hugh
Still trying to walk in the Light
Please see 1 John 1:5
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Brian Nicholas
Location: Ohio, USA Joined: 14 May 2008
Posts: 17
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| Posted: Wed 14 May, 2008 11:05 pm Post subject: Foot Officer's Swords |
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I too am new here so I hope I don't offend by putting in my two cents. I fenced in college, went to a Military Academy. so I have some experience. It sounds like you plan to practice on foot, and you would be best served witha weapon that was designed to be used on foot. The reason that cavalry sabers are designed the way they were is to give optimum use while mounted. That said I think the Patton M1913 US Cavalry Saber or the 1908 British Cav Saber would be your best bets for both the intricate moves of fencing as well as slashes. They have execellent points and are superbly balanced weapons and while the principal tactic in their use was to create a sort of human, horse powered missle focusing on the point, Both sabers have a good edge as well. On foot they would serve anyone well in a sword duel.
Don't discount a foot officer's sword/ saber. While many are straight bladed some have a slight curve and all have both a sharp point and a good edge. The 1842 British Officers Sword comes to mind, as I have one in my collection. It handles superbly, it is light, well balanced, has a nice long blade that comes to a good point and is solid and heavy enough to use as a hacking weapon as well. The are a great many companies out there that offer reproductions of foot officers swords from all nations and in a variety of styles. I recommend focusing on a weapon that is well balanced and light. A heavy sword will wear out you and your arm very quickly, which is what will happen with a lot of your heavy cavalry type weapon. There was a reason the US 1840 Pattern cavalry saver was nicknamed "The Wristbreaker". In college we often would "fence", it was more like swashbuckling, with our US Army Colonial Pattern Officer's Swords. This is the sword that is current;y the regulation sword for US Army Officers. There are also a great many suppliers of these weapons out there as well. And a well made sword of this type handles quite well and is not all that fatiguing. I was just on www.totalnavy.com looking at ship models and noticed they have a nice selection of US Military swords. the US Marine Officer's mamaluke sabre could fit the bill as well. Their offering of the 1902 Presentation swrod would work as it's a suped up 1872 US Cav Officers saber.
I've attached a few piucs which I borrowed from the totalnavy.com website to give you a good view of what theswe weapons look like. Good hunting
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the varying US military swords: Army, Academy, Marine NCO, Air Force, Marine Officer and Navy Officer
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the patton saber similar to the1908 Brit as well
Have been collecting swords for 20 years. Have over a dozen historical and repro pieces.
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This is a standard topic