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Gary A. Chelette




Location: Houston, Texas
Joined: 29 May 2007
Reading list: 2 books

Posts: 337

PostPosted: Fri 25 Jan, 2008 1:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Medieval swordplay self taught ..?         Reply with quote

Jody A wrote:
I live in a part of the country where medieval sword play instruction is not offered (a small island in the Pacific off the coast of British Columbia) ... does anyone have a good reference book/DVD that I can start with to self teach myself some basics? I would like to learn to practice cut, thrust, and guard moves without a partner, but with soft targets. I have searched through the bookstore and reviews, but I can't seem to find a single, strong resource. I am in the 12th - 14th centuries, my sword is an Albion Knight, and I don't have a buckler ... any ideas?? Idea Question


You might try here. Some of the SCA groups do live steel practice and some members are also part of HEMA.
http://www.lionsgate.antir.sca.org/
http://www.lionsgate.antir.sca.org/

Are you scared, Connor?
No, Cousin Dugal. I'm not!
Don't talk nonsense, man. I peed my kilt the first time I went into battle.
Oh, aye. Angus pees his kilt all the time!
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Brandon Minton




Location: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 13 Feb 2006

Posts: 21

PostPosted: Fri 25 Jan, 2008 1:58 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi Jody and everyone else, man what a great question asked here as the response is totally awesome and dynamic. The link to how to make a pell is fantastic. Thanks Corey. I've enjoyed hearing the above opinions so far so here's my $.02 to throw in if you don't mind:

1. Buying books, DVD et cetera... stimulate the economy, help those who love trying to help you get some food on their table. You'll learn a bit of what the authors know by repetitively doing their drills.

2. Vaclav's theory... yes! do martial arts, do everything you can to learn from the best to understand close-combat fighting. This is the Ph D of combat if you learn several things as it all comes down to how humans move as you try to disable, kill, or just win a tourney.

Here's my question though for you Jody: what are you wanting to get out of your training--what are you trying to achieve? Honestly, it might not be the thing to ask right now as you might wish to experiment around with things that sound interesting but if you do answer this question, you might find a more precise answer.

Here's a selfish example: me.
Goal: 1. To be a badass in the SCA. 2. To be a source of knowledge on 11th-12th C. Normans throughout Europa.
Experience: Hapkido for several years before college. Tennis all through high school. Kendo and rubgy throughout college.
Now: Somehow this inexorably lead to the SCA to really do what I want: single-sword and kite shield fighting. Fighters notice the martial art experience, my need to smash something from tennis, kendo helped with *some* of the sword fighting skills and rugby helped me a bit in dealing with melee's presented in SCA wars which are awesome. Warrior prowess, glory, and knowledge of history are all the things I want to experience. Many things in my upbringing prepared quite a bit but I must admit, I've finished my first year in the SCA so far and I still get totally owned by guys who've practiced tourney fighting for several years.
Moral of the story: figure out what you want. You want to be a master, then learn from one and practice like one. Until then, play around with these wonderful suggestions and see what you like. Cheers
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F. Carl Holz




Location: someplace out on the water (and probably not able to access my PM)
Joined: 05 Aug 2006
Likes: 6 pages
Reading list: 5 books

Posts: 115

PostPosted: Fri 25 Jan, 2008 5:17 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I would strongly recommend The swordsmans companion, by Guy Windsor. The basics are spelled out exceptionally well, and most of the excercises are easily applied to a single handed weapon. The partner work probably wont change over easily, but given the lack of partner this shouldn't be a problem. I have not found a book that gives a better introduction to footwork and body mechanics, or even a comparable one.

The sword and buckler books are a good plan to as you'll find techniques that apply specifically to what you want, but I would suggest that for latter on once your footwork/basics have taken root. The ochs longsword movie is a great resource, I haven't seen the one for the messer but it would probably be very helpful.

Anyways, hope this was helpful.

Carl
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Bob Burns




Location: South Indianapolis IN
Joined: 09 Sep 2005
Likes: 1 page
Reading list: 112 books

Posts: 1,019

PostPosted: Fri 25 Jan, 2008 9:09 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

This is a nice Thread and interesting posts, though I am just a beginner, tenderfoot, sword fodder for the experts Laughing Out Loud , coming from expertise skills of the unarmed combat, I too think in my humble beginner opinion find the use of books "studied in earnest effort to be as exacting as possible to the directives of the author".
Swordsman's Companion, definitely a good book, the German longsword books by Christian Henry Tobler, also his genius of "In Service of the Duke", all the books by Stephen Hand including the Spadas. I have invested in all these books and more, I find them of great benefit.
I can identify with Brandon, though my "Hey Day" is Over, I've done a lot of head and body banging too in the sports aspect, inclusive of the rather insane hardcore unarmed arts, solely for the love of the art, the warrior blood does still flow in my veins and probably always will so long and my heart pumps the blood through my veins, though I would not compare myself to grand master Chelette, ( I hope he does not mind my formal address to his Shishidan rank which is
7th Dan and quite a remarkable accomplishment!
Lot's of experts and masters of their various martial art styles, whether it be unarmed or swordsmanship, kind of makes me feel yet a bit of a tadpole by comparison. Laughing Out Loud
However, I like being a beginner again, lots of interesting things to learn and the books authored by some of the members of this forum "Your books are Outstanding" Exclamation I think I have all of them, both sword and rapier instruction books, with much appreciation to Brian and Ann Price, which by the way, I do have a few of Brian Price's books including Sword in Two Hands which is terrific. I especially like where he uses illustrations of actual shoes in the appropriate foot positions for various stances. I found this technique of instruction imaginitive and innovative, while being an excellent vehicle of demonstration for the reader to absorb!
The exquisite form so precise and flowing that I refer to this remarkable form of Christian Henry Tobler as being
"Poetry In Motion" Exclamation
All these books which I aquired from Chivalry Bookshelf are of wonderful assistance to me, I also have their DVD on the German Longsword, which is outstanding.
But there's nothing like being under the direct instrution if an expert swordsman!

Cheers!

Bob
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Jody A




Location: Vancouver, BC
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
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Posts: 35

PostPosted: Sat 26 Jan, 2008 12:57 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Brandon Minton wrote:


Here's my question though for you Jody: what are you wanting to get out of your training--what are you trying to achieve? Honestly, it might not be the thing to ask right now as you might wish to experiment around with things that sound interesting but if you do answer this question, you might find a more precise answer.


Brandon, good question! I have to think about that. I admit, the flower of my youth is fading, and my day job and family and writing keep my pretty busy, so I will not be aspiring to be a master of the art. But I am healthy and strong and have a love of history and the sword and most things medieval and knightly, so I suspect what is really driving me is the connection with the past - the truest one we can summons from 800 years out. I simply want to learn to handle the sword, and myself, in as meaningful and historically accurate way as possible, creating for myself a strong sense of what it would have been like for our medieval forefathers when they picked up their swords and stepped toward each other, both in practice and in conflict. No small task, but I'm getting some great advice! You have all been immensely helpful. At the risk of sounding a little flaky, my thoughts are starting to evolve since I first launched this post and started reading some of the resources recommended and dialoguing with some of you off-line and, Brandon, asking myself that question you asked. When I really look at my answer(s), I find that I am probably looking to start with the longsword for a number of reasons ... but I'm still forming my thoughts and learning alot so keep your thoughts coming!

QUI FALSITATE VIVIT, ANIMAM OCCIDIT. FALSUS IN ORE, CARET HONORE.
"Who lives in falsehood slays his soul, whose speech is false, his honour".
Inscription on type XII dated 1040-60 (Records, Oakeshott)
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Thomas Watt




Location: Metrowest Boston
Joined: 19 Sep 2006
Reading list: 7 books

Posts: 159

PostPosted: Sat 26 Jan, 2008 3:29 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

You know, you could always work with what books and video you can get for a while, and arrange to travel for an intensive training session (workshop?) with someone from time to time.
Have 11 swords, 2 dirks, half a dozen tomahawks and 2 Jeeps - seem to be a magnet for more of all.
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Jean Thibodeau




Location: Montreal,Quebec,Canada
Joined: 15 Mar 2004
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PostPosted: Sat 26 Jan, 2008 8:00 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jody A wrote:
Brandon Minton wrote:


Here's my question though for you Jody: what are you wanting to get out of your training--what are you trying to achieve? Honestly, it might not be the thing to ask right now as you might wish to experiment around with things that sound interesting but if you do answer this question, you might find a more precise answer.


Brandon, good question! I have to think about that. I admit, the flower of my youth is fading, and my day job and family and writing keep my pretty busy, so I will not be aspiring to be a master of the art. But I am healthy and strong and have a love of history and the sword and most things medieval and knightly, so I suspect what is really driving me is the connection with the past - the truest one we can summons from 800 years out. I simply want to learn to handle the sword, and myself, in as meaningful and historically accurate way as possible, creating for myself a strong sense of what it would have been like for our medieval forefathers when they picked up their swords and stepped toward each other, both in practice and in conflict. No small task, but I'm getting some great advice! You have all been immensely helpful. At the risk of sounding a little flaky, my thoughts are starting to evolve since I first launched this post and started reading some of the resources recommended and dialoguing with some of you off-line and, Brandon, asking myself that question you asked. When I really look at my answer(s), I find that I am probably looking to start with the longsword for a number of reasons ... but I'm still forming my thoughts and learning alot so keep your thoughts coming!


I think one can go through various stages as far as objectives are concerned: In my case I started taking lessons from curiosity and to at least know how the techniques read in books or seen on DVD really looked and felt.

In period one could or should train to be able to survive and win fights: So it wouldn't be game and as a soldier preparing for war one would have to train " seriously " i.e. get into real fighting shape and become tough both mentally and physically. The stakes are truly life and death and being mentally conditioned to real danger and accepting that death or crippling injury is very possible.

Getting back to today: One can do it for knowledge at first and be content with a low ambition/slow progress curve.

After a while one can decide that getting as good as possible is the goal.

At another level there are those seriously studying the original text and are trying to rediscover/reinvent period swordsmanship: become as good as they can with what is now known and delve deeper into the art.

At the more relaxed level I am currently at, I find the whole thing very much like a form of meditation in movement and a great stress reliever in a way similar to yoga, tai-chi or any other form of physical exercise. ( natural endorphin high )

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Steven Reich




Location: Arlington, VA
Joined: 28 Oct 2003

Posts: 237

PostPosted: Sat 26 Jan, 2008 10:21 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jody A wrote:
Brandon, good question! I have to think about that. I admit, the flower of my youth is fading, and my day job and family and writing keep my pretty busy, so I will not be aspiring to be a master of the art. But I am healthy and strong and have a love of history and the sword and most things medieval and knightly, so I suspect what is really driving me is the connection with the past - the truest one we can summons from 800 years out. I simply want to learn to handle the sword, and myself, in as meaningful and historically accurate way as possible, creating for myself a strong sense of what it would have been like for our medieval forefathers when they picked up their swords and stepped toward each other, both in practice and in conflict. No small task, but I'm getting some great advice! You have all been immensely helpful. At the risk of sounding a little flaky, my thoughts are starting to evolve since I first launched this post and started reading some of the resources recommended and dialogging with some of you off-line and, Brandon, asking myself that question you asked. When I really look at my answer(s), I find that I am probably looking to start with the longsword for a number of reasons ... but I'm still forming my thoughts and learning a lot so keep your thoughts coming!


Don't let age discourage you, as you'll look back in ten years and think about how young you are now; as in all arts, the art of swordsmanship can be an end unto itself.

If you live inside or near the city of Vancouver, I would recommend that you check out Academie Duello. It may or may not be your thing, but at the very least, they can help you reduce the amount of time you spend learning things the hard way. If they are an option (i.e. logistics doesn't prevent you), I'd recommend you check them out and see how your "gut" responds. In the end, this hobby is what you want it to be and there are many angles and paths through it. Find the path that works for you (and maybe I'll see you at a future 4W seminar in Seattle).

Steve

Founder of NoVA-Assalto, an affiliate of the HEMA Alliance
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R D Moore




Location: Portland Oregon
Joined: 09 Jun 2007
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PostPosted: Sun 27 Jan, 2008 12:25 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi Jody,

I want to second Steven's reply. Don't put this off because you're becomming a bit "long in the tooth". We are all forced to make choices about what direction our lives should take, but to use another cliche- "everything has it's time". I had a flying job lined up in Alaska after school, but marraige, family, and career all required attention, which caused me to sideline bush flying. Do I miss it? Of course. Do I regret my decisions? Not for a second. So jump in. You'll find your niche.
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