So, I’m taking a martial art that teaches unarmed combat, sword fighting, stick fighting, and knife fighting. This started me thinking, other then as an assistant to the small-sword and rapier, how much were knives used? Was knife fighting in the training or was it just “put the point in the bad-guy :lol:”?

Mr. Storey, would this happen to be kali silat/escrima, or a similar FMA?

In Marine Corps Martial Arts there are a handful of knife techniques (including a few unarmed vs. armed) but interestingly knife fighting on the whole is deemphasized in favor of "find a better weapon"

well the reason it is deemphasized is because in most knife fights both people will get cut and stabbed, especially since most people dont have the sense of distance and timing that sparring gives you. (imagine giving two beginners weapons after their first lesson and then letting them go at it). That coupled with the amount of time needed to train any given person to become adept at distance and timing vs. how often they expect anyone to be in a knife fight means that they need to teach some basics, but not go too in depth. So rather than emphasizing one thing they dont expect you to have to use much, they emphasize all out aggression coupled with some choice techniques and headwork on finding a better weapon than knife.

im not saying its perfect, but i think that is their line of reasoning.

An interesting side to 'knife-fighting' is the way of the spanish plebs.

The knife used traditionally was and is a fairly large to oversized folding knife. The bandoleros of the 19th century rode with preferrable two trabucos and a large folding knife. In knifefights including against a sword they would use their cloak or jacket to parry.

peter

As Bill already touched on knife fighting in the middle ages involved grappling. Grappling was the first part of most combat books of the era because it was the foundation for all the other forms.

In Donald MacBain's autobiography that was published with his manual and Hope's New Method in "Highland Swordsmanship: Techniques of the Scottish Sword Masters" (Ed. Mark Rector) I believe he mentioned the Dutch settling their quarrels with knives instead of swords, and alluded to there being an interesting martial art associated with this...

Does anybody know what MacBain is talking about there?

Is medieval grappling similar to modern (real) wrestling? What few videos I have seen on I.33 and Longsword fencing never really got to the grappling, instead finishing with swords.

M.

Actually, there is LOTS of knife/dagger play in the fencing manuals.
Liberi, Talhoffer, and most of the others have very extensive dagger sections.

Since knives would be carried at almost all times, it is natural that they where used for fighting. In most self defence/Kill the guy that looked at the wench i was looking at-situations the knife would be the only thing at hand. Or you probably wouldn't be in the fight in the first place.
In additon to this, daggers where used extensively in armoured close combat.

So, yes, dagger/knife was trained extensively, with quite advanced techniques.

Of course, like today, most "real" fights where pure grab and stab...