[Van de Laak]

Hi all,

I am a newbie that would like to purchase an entree level long sword. I am not planning to hit and spar with it, but just to get stamina and improve my posture/form/feel during (solo) drills. (but not a wallhanger or course) As it will be my first sword (and my wife will never agree to let me spend a lot of money for my newest craze , I prefer a budget one... if possible a fairly decent one, that doesn't fall apart or something.

My thought was that the Windlass longsword http://www.reliks.com/merchant.ihtml?pid=2020 with the long ricasso might be a decent choice. Mainly because it has the proper looks and characteristics as far as I can tell. (correct me if I am wrong) I've searched all kinds of forums/reviews and whatsoever, and it seems that:

+ Its quite decent, especially for a Windlass, it has a relative "stiff" blade, due to the long ricasso.
- Its a Windlass, so after a little while things tend or might get loose, such as the hilt etc.

I also found out that many people out there have something against Windlass, but I've read that the quality of their products have been improved quite a bit.

I read the review from Lance Chan, and some other comments on forums here and there, but so far there is not much more to find regarding this sword. Of course all the non-mass produced swords made by genuine weaponsmiths are superior... but at a very steep price. Is there anyone who knows more about this sword? Or is there anyone that can recommend me a similar sword within this budget?

Many thanks!

[Martin Forrester]

http://www.medieval-weaponry.co.uk/acatalog/p...ml#aHW2106

Not as pretty, but this is what I'd go for in your shoes. Ok to spar with though it won't last years.

[George Davidson]

the new, future, all improved, mibi out by xmas hanwei might be worth waiting for...
discussed here:
http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=10926

[Chris DiDomenico]

maybe if your willing to spend up to about 400 you can go with one of the albion squire line swords seen here
http://www.albion-swords.com/swords/albion/sw...squire.htm

[Roy T.]

Hanwei " bastard sword"- Kult of Athea would be a choice as would the " Hand and One Half".

[Joe Fults]

Go with your gut...or take the time to read Lance's reviews again.

IMO he gives things a good testing.

[Bob Burns]

Van, you definitely will not find any better prices and service than at www.kultofathena.com I live 17 miles from this store and it's immaculate in the showroom! What's listed in stock is in fact In Stock!
Swords and strengthening exercises, this addresses me for one. Having wear and tear fairly serious arthritis in my spine I do use my swords as a means of physical therapy, which was also a suggestion to me by my orthopedic surgeon.
He stated to me that the all encompassing of articulations and muscles of the back and shoulders would be incorporated in something like the practice of swordsmanship.
This came about when I specifically asked him if swordplay would be okay for me, where upon he said to me that not only "could" I do so, but that this would be very good for me! Especially because of the kinds of movements which also include circular motions, as well as cuts, thrusts, guards, etc.
Not only is this a very stimulating hobby mentally but it's also something that can be very healthy!

Welcome Aboard Van!

Bob

[Van de Laak]

Hi Bob,

Thanks for your reply! (as well my thank to all others who replied so far) What follows is just some rambling... Many years ago, (1988) I was quite a chubby guy (14 years)... I started to practise kung fu (white eyebrow style, yes I know, funny name.. but its a pretty serious style, no-nonsense...) and upon recommendation of the master, took up some weightlifting too, in his basement garage. Well, after a few short years, I looked like Adonis. They even gave me a nickname "Hercules" ...seriously. However after finishing school and such, I started to work, got married, moved to a place where food is inexpensive and very tasty (Hong Kong) and stopped practising kung fu. (sadly my master passed away and I moved from the Netherlands to Hong Kong)... now I am becoming too fat... (I don't like the kung fu schools here even though some teach the same style) As a kid I always was hooked reading and watching historical stuff. For example after seeing "Revenge of the Ninja" me and my best friends started to make our own blow pipes/darts and grapling hooks and stuff. After some initial errors, we eventually came up with some pretty nifty "weapons". Especially the blow darts worked fine. (after watching some documentary of Amazon Indians, you know... they attach a little piece of cotton or something like that at the end of a sharp neede-like dart) So we applied our own version of that and it worked great. Even before that we made our own bows out of straight branches of a certain flexible type of wood we found in a forest haha... oh man, those were the days. For arrows we used those neat straight plant support sticks (bamboo I guess), and then attached some feathers (we had some chickens in the backyard)

I tell you, that worked great... can you imagine some 10 - 12 years olds shooting with homemade bows which were suprisingly accurate and effective... you know... shooting into trees and such? Nowadays I never see any kids doing that kind of stuff anymore. Anyway, I just ranting here... recently I started to research some old Dutch names (we were expecting a baby, and I wanted to give her a nice Northern European sounding name) so basically through this research I started to learn some stuff about family weapons and such. (heraldry) and I got more and more interested in medieval stuff. I am also very interested in the Viking period as well. I ended up naming my daughter; Freya Aurora van de Laak. Freya is the Norse goddess of beauty and love and such. Aurora, taken from Aurora Borealis, the Northern Lights. The vikings thought the the Northern Lights were created by the goddess Freya and her Valkyries riding through the skies, their shining armour creating these strange lights. So I thought that a pretty nice name... Freya Aurora (van de Laak is my last name, means.. from the Lake. So that brings me here... my previous interest in historical stuff and martial arts. I especially was suprised to find out that Western martial arts is starting to get revived. (I never knew that before) I thought that's pretty cool. I mean Asian Martial arts are cool too, but I am European so a native martial art is perhaps even cooler. In this way I could honor my ancestors, to keep their spirit alive you could say. So I am taking the first steps in learning Master Liechtenauer's system. Hopefully it will get me in shape too. For all your information: I just pressed the "order" button... I go for the Windlass long sword.

Thanks for reading!

[Bob Burns]

Hi Van, in my teens I studied Kenpo Karate, then a very similar style "Chuan Fa" for a few years which was basically Kenpo with a Chinese twist to it. Got to 3rd brown, (brown goes in reverse of black, low rank of brown in most all forms of karate is 3rd degree brown, then 2nd and 1st degree brown being the highest rank of brown belt and at this stage you are basically a black belt all except for the final polishing, which is quite a substantial final phase before 1st degree or
1st dan black belt which of course is the lowest rank of black belt.
Having made 3rd brown back in my younger years was when the school went out of business, similar style was not taught anywhere around me. Frustrated for 26 years at not making black, I set back out at the ripe old middle age of 44, the week before 9/11. Hard constant training and some 200 + chiropractor sessions due to unknown at the time wear and tear arthritis all through my spinal column inclusive of 2 minor hernias in the cervical and 3 in the lumbar, 3 years of horrible pain and sheer stubborn will, I got that 1st degree karate black belt in October 2004. Then immediately set out to find out what in the hell was wrong with my back and neck. X - Rays came back and my karate trained physician told me that I was "Finished"! Then the MRI's which substantiated the minor hernias and all the other junk like osteophytes (bone spurs) all over the place.

I went into a dark and deep depression, lot's of physical therapy, the MD directed quest for the right pain medication and muscle relaxers.
The summer of 2003, 2nd year and time at the IL / WI border Bristol Renaissance Faire, for the first time in my 46 years, I discovered that I had a more than casual interest in European swords and rapiers. That day in the summer of 2003 after seeing the mediocre overpriced swords of three different vendors I went to the back of the fair near the jousting grounds to give that "Arms & Armor" vendor storefront a much more serious look than I had in 2002. A few different swords were placed in my hands and the "pilot light" was lit. Still going after the black belt at this time I started to contemplate one day buying one of their swords.
Late October 2004 until March 2005 was the period of doctors, MRIs and diagnosis and of course that dark hole known as "Depression"!
Early summer of 2005 a few grand came my way but it did not do much for my state of mind, as I'd always led a very physical lifestyle which is exactly what messed up my back.
Early August, having been to the faire 4 or 5 times that summer, I came to the mental, physical and spiritual arrival of which one of those Arms & Armor swords that I wanted first. The "German Bastard Sword", I phoned Arms & Armor, spoke to Craig, learned they in fact did have a GBS ready to ship. Gave Craig the credit card info, had it sent Overnight Express and the next day my wife "gayle" took photographs as I opened the box. When I took that sword out of it's bubble wrap, a light came on in that dark hole called "depression" and I was experiencing the first waves of euphoria in a very long time!
Even though there have been some tough times since that first sword, I have too much happiness because of this hobby for anything to keep me down or get me depressed. I finally found the True Passionate Interest of "My" Lifetime!
I also had acquired both of Christian Henry Tobler's books on the German Longsword and started practicing on my own. I've not "yet" been involved in any formal sword instruction, but in just studying these and a lot of other sword instruction books, it's quite easy to understand that Western European Swordsmanship is easily as complex as karate, kung fu, jiu jitsu or any other Asian martial art. Without formal instruction I will not ever experience the "Awakening" to these highly complex and sophisticated arts of the Western European medieval sword.


That first sword was quickly followed by 3 more Arms & Armor swords and 1 rapier within 2 months time.

I went Nutzoid Now, 2 years later I have 18 swords (9 Arms & Armor) (2 Albion), 1 rapier(Arms & Armor), 17 polearms (13 Arms & Armor ), 7 daggers (4 Arms & Armor), 1 kukhri, 2 bucklers (Arms & Armor), rivetted steel hauberk, 2 battle helms and other various wonderful things!

Now, the acquisition madness has been over for a few months and I am so very grateful for All that I have acquired!

Western European Medieval Swordsmanship? Now "This" Is a Martial Art

I include the art of the Rapier in the above statement, even though it is renaissance.

Sincerely,

Bob

[Van de Laak]

Well Bob, all I can say is respect by still getting so far with your quest for the black belt. I cannot imagine how difficult it would have been for you. I really liked your very personal story, at some points it went pretty deep man. Great to hear that swords can pierce through that black hole you were in, and create a ray of light. Thanks for sharing.

Wow, pretty serious buying spree you went through, so many items. You must have a very nice wife p.s. a few days ago I got my copy of Mr. Tobler's "Fighting with the German Longsword". Its very nice I must say, I really like his way of writing and teaching method. Although I am a rookie, I must say that I really think his stance, presentation and style is very precise and classy. At least it seems so in my lamers eyes. Great work.

Note for the webmaster: I am not sure if there is already a special section for stories like these. If not it would be quite nice to set up a special section containing likewise stories.

[Chad Arnow]

[Bob Burns]

Thank you Van for the kind words. I've got the pain under control now for the most part, the final missing piece to the puzzle was the Panasonic Real Pro Elite Massage Chair that insurance would not cover stating it's a luxury item but they'll spend 5 grand + a year on physical therapy that does not do a diddly boo. Archaic I tell ya, lol. I am one of the lucky few these days, my wife is an RN so I am covered with an incredible Blue Cross Plan and anything I have done at the hospital through which she works, things are free. When she started there, we had 5 plans to choose from, I said, we are middle aged, we don't have money so to speak, let's get the very best plan. Result? Example: $20,000.00 worth of X Rays and MRIs, cost us not one dime. Covers 90% of Chiro, but my doctor waves the other 10 %.
Could be worse, lots of people out there with rheumatoid arthritis, cancer, lupus, Chrones Disease, etc. Oh, lastly on my personal soap opera here my beloved now live in mother bought that $4,600.00 (including tax) massage chair for me.
The swords, and they can be the more economic type that you are currently seeking, bring me a whole lot of happiness.

Your comment about your new book by Christian Henry Tobler and his stance, presentation and style being impressive and classy. My rank was purely meritoriously, my strength was freestyle sparring and self defense techniques, so obviuosly I know how things in what I was studying are supposed to be executed. I am not a swordsman, but I've seen executions of katas (a specific form utilizing various prescribed techniques) and other demonstrations by "Masters" of karate, and as I've said before in myArmoury posts, I know style, class and excellence when I see it and in my opinion, Christian Henry Tobler is "Poetry In Motion" I have Never seen Better! Anywhere! I'd bet my bottom dollar he's practiced for thousands of hours to get where he is today.
In fact, it was a friend and to some extent a co auther on some of Mr. Tobler's books "David Peck" who awoke the sleeping lion in me. David is also a German Longsword Instructor and was at that time the manager at the Arms & Armor store in the faire. Because of David I've nearly worn a sword or two via my wife. She says that he and I are natured like two peas in a pod. David put the Henry V, English Longsword in my hands and highly endorsed the Durer Bastard Sword, needless to say I was hooked on all three of them! LOL!

Getting back to your original post to bring things back on course here, some several months ago I bought the Windlass Towton Sword. Hanwei Sir William Marshall Sword (non pattern steel version) and I am still very impressed with these swords. You don't have to buy an Albion or an Arms & Armor sword (listed alphabetically on purpose, mutual High respect) to have a good sword. Oh sure these swords are on another plateau, most definitely, but you can still find some nice swords well under $400.00. The Towton I gave to my stepson who is married, along with Mr. Toblers main longsword book. I also bought both of Mr. Tobler's books for my artist cousin and myArmoury member James "Jim"
Conahan, to aid his "all his life interest in knights" style of artwork. He was blown away with the books, said as an artist they were worth thousands of dollars in reference resources. Incidently, for one handed swordsmanship, seek the books and both Spadas by Stephen Hand! I have everything both these sword masters have published.

In the more economical realm of swords, I won't mention the names of the companies I am not fond of, but they're swords tend to be far too heavy in my opinion. I'll just stick with saying that as far as the more large sword production companies go, I prefer Paul Chen Hanwei and Windlass Steelcrafts.
Best prices to be found on those swords would be at Kult of Athena. Customer service reliability is impeccable!
However, they will be closed from about Sept. 21st until Oct. 02, 2007. Ryan and his wife are going on a much needed vacation to Scotland and England to take in museums, castles, etc. Lucky guy, he's going to see the Wallace Collection!
But Ryan deserves it, more a fair man have I yet to meet! He too is a collector. Funny story, I'll be brief. He ordered the Albion Vassal for his store the day the artwork appeared on the Albion site. Shortly thereafter I saw it on Albion and I went completely Ape$%&# with excitement and anxiety. Well I ordered it in oxblood through Ryan and his was in black. I have a lot of Arms & Armor swords and they have black grips. The black grip came in stock first at Kult of Athena, I asked to buy it instead, Ryan said sure. When my original Vassal came in stock, Ryan decided he had to have it for his personal collection, so he had to order a 3rd Vassal for the store. So I got Ryan's Vassal and Ryan got my Vassal.

OK, I'm long winded enough, I hope I've helped you Van, as well as others.

Sincerely,

Bob

[Van de Laak]

Many thanks for all your help and feedback so far. I've placed the order for the longsword, and I have to say that Crystal from KOA is very friendly and prompt. She send the order almost within the same day after I placed the order, their prices are the best (as far as I can tell) and they ship USPS. Not many companies will do that, for they only send by expensive couriers, which are more than twice as expensive. I really am glad I ordered by KOA.

[Bob Burns]

Hi Van, I am really glad to learn that you went with Kult of Athena and I am here to tell you, they will never let you down! That you can bank on! Ryan and his wife Crystal are very rare and special people! If you ever want me to take a look at something or a few things over at KOA, I'd be happy to do so, besides it gives me a rational excuse and opportunity to go to Kult of Athena, in regard to my wife Gayle.
Although I am not a religious person, I wil use the expression " I like going to Kult of Athena for the Fellowship with another very genuine Sword Fanatic! That person obvioulsy being Ryan, who's favorite period is Roman military history and WOW is he ever a walking reference library to this time period and culture!

I wish you could see the Showroom at Kult of Athena, the south wall is full of large windows and it is the "long" wall.

It's been a pleasure posting with you Van! I enjoyed this!

Sincerely,

Sir Robert Burns II

"The Knight of Madness" <~~~~~~~~~~~~

[Van de Laak]

Same here, I liked it too! ... I have a lame myspace site... www.myspace.com/jahvandelaak it has a nice demo on it... which is actually pretty well known... anyway not sure you saw it before so have a look. Just scroll down the page till you see some swordfighting stuff. (You'll see some other stuff as well, but that's about filmmusic, which is another hobby of mine.) Thanks for the offer regarding KOH!