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Sean Flynt
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Posted: Wed 25 Jul, 2007 11:24 am Post subject: Another German Bastard Sword Upgrade |
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I wanted to post a few quick photos of my last project before submerging in preparation for my family's own private "Labor Day".
Dustin Reagan had the same idea, with very nice results:
http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t...light=cord
I went a slightly different route with mine. I discarded the entire grip, which was just a dowel with two facets cut into the lower end. The new grip is oval in section, like the original's (see last photo below). I narrowed the base of the pommel, filed off the raised part of the pommel below the nut and flattened the quillon block to conform more to the design of the original. I gave the hilt and blade a satin finish, firmly wedged the cross in place, used JB Weld on cross, grip and pommel, and peened the tang over the pommel nut. The sword feels and looks much better to me. The first photo shows the piece as purchased.
I didn't set out to match the original exactly. I just wanted something with a nicer finish and a few more historically appropriate details.
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-Sean
Author of the Little Hammer novel
https://www.amazon.com/Little-Hammer-Sean-Flynt/dp/B08XN7HZ82/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=little+hammer+book&qid=1627482034&sr=8-1
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Jean Thibodeau
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Posted: Wed 25 Jul, 2007 2:25 pm Post subject: |
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Very nice work ! A lot of these inexpensive but basically well put together swords can benefit from a little home project improvements fixing details that were missed or done incorrectly.
Almost a good thing that the makers get thing wrong as you wouldn't get the fun of putting your own touch on these.
You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Torsten F.H. Wilke
Location: Irvine Spectrum, CA Joined: 01 Jul 2006
Posts: 250
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Posted: Wed 25 Jul, 2007 9:21 pm Post subject: |
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Excellent job on the grip, Sean. You have almost faithfully recreated the original to a "T".
One rhetorical question though - why can't anyone seem to get the rest of a sword right??? Viewing the original makes me think of the recreation in terms of words such as comical and horrendous. Many fine sword recreations are victims of this apathy if you look closely. Even the finest are not infallible. Have we as humanity lost the mastery of finesse? Oh, I accidentaly used a form of the word "master". Hope I haven't inadvertantly started a second 90 post "discussion" on that kr@p. Maybe they will graduate to starting a topic on debating the number of angels which can fit on the head of a pin next... /sarcasm
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J. Pav
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Posted: Wed 25 Jul, 2007 9:35 pm Post subject: |
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Excellent! I've always liked the look of this model, but your modification is a huge step up.
Since I'm here, how flexible is the blade? This model is a tad newer than any MRL longswords I've handled, and they were all noodles...
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Nathan Robinson
myArmoury Admin
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Posted: Wed 25 Jul, 2007 9:42 pm Post subject: |
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Torsten F.H. Wilke wrote: | Excellent job on the grip, Sean. You have almost faithfully recreated the original to a "T".
One rhetorical question though - why can't anyone seem to get the rest of a sword right??? Viewing the original makes me think of the recreation in terms of words such as comical and horrendous. Many fine sword recreations are victims of this apathy if you look closely. Even the finest are not infallible. Have we as humanity lost the mastery of finesse? Oh, I accidentaly used a form of the word "master". Hope I haven't inadvertantly started a second 90 post "discussion" on that kr@p. Maybe they will graduate to starting a topic on debating the number of angels which can fit on the head of a pin next... /sarcasm |
Keep your sarcasm off this site.
Thank you.
.:. Visit my Collection Gallery :: View my Reading List :: View my Wish List :: See Pages I Like :: Find me on Facebook .:.
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Sean Flynt
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Posted: Thu 26 Jul, 2007 7:06 am Post subject: |
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The thing about this blade is that although it clearly is not enough like the original to be considered a reproduction (the fuller is non-negotiable, in my view,) it seems to be a reasonable form for the period, culture and hilt. That's one reason I consider this piece to be more generally "in the style of" the early 16th c. rather than a reproduction of the Wallace Collection original.
Specifically, the blade is of thick and pronounced hexagonal section in its upper third, gradually tapering toward the point and becoming lenticular. It's a broad, strong cutting blade, which is true to the type and period. It's also the stiffest Windlass blade I've ever encountered. That may sound like faint praise, but it really is extremely stiff. POB remains ~3" below the cross in spite of all my hilt work because I also sharpened the blade.
I share the frustration with some Windlass pieces, wondering why the designers would go out of their way to get something wrong, giving one sword an ahistorical blade when we know the company is technically capable of getting it right on other swords in the same price range. This piece is one of the good ones, and although I would prefer a blade more like that of the original, this one is a reasonable substitute (especially for under $200).
-Sean
Author of the Little Hammer novel
https://www.amazon.com/Little-Hammer-Sean-Flynt/dp/B08XN7HZ82/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=little+hammer+book&qid=1627482034&sr=8-1
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Sean Flynt
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Posted: Thu 26 Jul, 2007 10:51 am Post subject: |
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It's worth noting that the blade of A&A's German Bastard Sword appears to be even less like that of the original sword that inspired its hilt design. From what little we can see of the original's blade, it appears to be another one of these broad, flat-ish cutting blades, with a soft, fullered hexagonal section in its upper part and probably tapering slightly and becoming lenticular. But the A&A's Type XVIII blade is a beautiful and historically defensible substitute. Wish I owned one of those, as well as a Town Gaurd Sword. Y'all let me know if you own those and want to trade even!
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-Sean
Author of the Little Hammer novel
https://www.amazon.com/Little-Hammer-Sean-Flynt/dp/B08XN7HZ82/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=little+hammer+book&qid=1627482034&sr=8-1
Last edited by Sean Flynt on Thu 26 Jul, 2007 12:44 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Nathan Robinson
myArmoury Admin
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Posted: Thu 26 Jul, 2007 11:17 am Post subject: |
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Sean Flynt wrote: | It's worth noting that the blade of A&A's German Bastard Sword appears to be even less like that of the original sword that inspired its hilt design. From what little we can see of the original's blade, it appears to be another one of these broad, flat-ish cutting blades, with a soft, fullered hexagonal section in its upper part and probably tapering slightly and becoming lenticular. But the A&A's Type XVIII blade is a beautiful and historially defensible substitute. Wish I owned one of those, as well as a Town Gaurd Sword. Y'all let me know if you own those and want to trade even! |
I've always wanted A&A to make me one of their swords with a more authentic configuration of the lenticular blade shape and grip styling of the original. I've had a conversation with them about this model. They've told me time and time again that the lenticular blade shapes have never been good sellers for them. This prompted the better selling diamond shape to be placed on their German Bastard Sword. The simplified grip treatment is, no doubt, a cost concession.
And this is a good point, Sean, worth some elaboration: every maker has to work within their price point structure. The Windlass piece you have, for example, effectively fits value into their price point while allowing enterprising people like yourself to take the time to explore further improvements.
.:. Visit my Collection Gallery :: View my Reading List :: View my Wish List :: See Pages I Like :: Find me on Facebook .:.
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Sean Flynt
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Posted: Thu 26 Jul, 2007 12:28 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, unlike some folks, I don't worry much about the assembly or finish of Windlass swords because of the price point. I get the same swords other folks get, but I view them from a different perspective (as kits). I can't imagine returning a $200 sword because the hilt rattles. I just figure it's a $200 sword because the hilt rattles. I fix the rattle. I just want to see historically plausible designs (including vital stats). I've noticed that I get frustrated with Windlass when the Windlass sword's inaccuracies exceed my current ability to deal with them on the workbench. Ugly finish? I now look right through it when I'm buying. Blade of ugly modern design on decent, historically inspired hilt? Frustration builds. The more skill I've developed at my workbench, the more content I've become as a consumer of Windlass products.
It's actually a little surprising to me that people complain more about mid-range swords than about those that cost twice as much but feature similar design compromises. I guess we're just willing to overlook a small thing like an unattractive grip wrap or lowest-common-denominator blade choice if the rest of the sword meets or exceeds expectations in terms of finish, fit and assembly. Well, that's how I feel with a finished Windlass upgrade project. It still has some design compromises, but it looks good and I've saved a ton of cash.
Once I have the finished Windlass project in hand I'm also reminded how much of the price difference between a decent inexpensive sword and a decent expensive one must come down to the labor cost of creating such details. I would guess that if Windlass decided to push into the premium sword market with a couple of new items each year, it wouldn't have to do as much in the way of R&D as in assembly and finishing. And since it'd be paying Indian craftsmen to create historically accurate cord-bound grips, peen tangs and do elaborate filework and careful hand finishing, it could offer these premium details for less than the premium American makers and satisfy folks who want a fully-finished $450 piece that looks wonderful even if it doesn't have much, or any, hands-on research behind it or handle as well (historically speaking) as an Albion or A&A piece. Maybe not. Maybe there's a no-man's land between $250 and $600.
Basically, I've created my own Windlass Premium Line, and I have no illusions about what I'm getting. I'd rather have the Albion or A&A products because of the research and craftsmanship behind them. But I'm not one of those with a large collection of cheap items that I could swap for one or two fine reproductions. My cheap stuff wouldn't add up to a single A&A item, and if I did manage to trade up I'd still have to be comfortable with compromises. Now, if Albion or A&A wanted to offer sword kits based on their regular catalog items--blade, pommel and guard, unassembled, unpolished and without grip--and get those down into the $450 range, I'd be the first in line and I seriously doubt there would be any more Windlass products in my collection, upgraded or not. I can certainly understand all the reasons they wouldn't want to do this, but it's fun to dream.
-Sean
Author of the Little Hammer novel
https://www.amazon.com/Little-Hammer-Sean-Flynt/dp/B08XN7HZ82/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=little+hammer+book&qid=1627482034&sr=8-1
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Dustin R. Reagan
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Posted: Thu 26 Jul, 2007 1:34 pm Post subject: Re: Another German Bastard Sword Upgrade |
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Sean Flynt wrote: |
I went a slightly different route with mine. I discarded the entire grip, which was just a dowel with two facets cut into the lower end. The new grip is oval in section, like the original's (see last photo below). I narrowed the base of the pommel, filed off the raised part of the pommel below the nut and flattened the quillon block to conform more to the design of the original. I gave the hilt and blade a satin finish, firmly wedged the cross in place, used JB Weld on cross, grip and pommel, and peened the tang over the pommel nut. The sword feels and looks much better to me.
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Looks great!
Have a few questions:
-What sort of leather did you use, and where did you find it?
-how did you manage to file off the little raised part of the pommel?
Also, can't help but notice...are you a lefty as well? =]
Dustin
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Sean Flynt
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Posted: Thu 26 Jul, 2007 2:07 pm Post subject: Re: Another German Bastard Sword Upgrade |
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Dustin R. Reagan wrote: |
-What sort of leather did you use, and where did you find it?
-how did you manage to file off the little raised part of the pommel?
Also, can't help but notice...are you a lefty as well? =]
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-I'm cheap. I use chamois from the automotive section of Mal-Wart, etc. You can get lots of grip wraps out of a $13 chamois. There are variations in thickness within a given chamois, so you have to be mindful of that when marking the pattern. Also, there's a subtle difference to the inside and outside, with a smoother surface outside that's difficult to distinguish when the leather is wetted just prior to wrapping. The shoe polish, ren wax and buffing gives the surface a glossy finish, but it can dull over time without re-buffing.
-For the filing, I just clamped the pommel in my bench vise and started filing. It's relatively soft metal, and the whole process took only a few minutes. You have to disassemble the sword to do this, of course, but that's just a matter of unscrewing the pommel nut (TIP: don't hold the sword grip, blade down, and remove the nut. Otherwise the blade will just drop right out of grip and guard and damage either your foot or the tip of the blade, if not both). Use a bench vise or keep the sword horizontal on a flat surface as you disassemble it. You can both loosen and tighten the nut by turning the entire pommel, by the way, as long as the nut is hand-tight against the pommel.
–I'm a righty. I needed my right hand free to hold the camera, one of the most notoriously annoying technologies for lefties--that and maybe the bolt-action rifle.
-Sean
Author of the Little Hammer novel
https://www.amazon.com/Little-Hammer-Sean-Flynt/dp/B08XN7HZ82/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=little+hammer+book&qid=1627482034&sr=8-1
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David Martin
Location: Southeastern Pennsylvania Joined: 11 Apr 2005
Posts: 165
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Posted: Thu 26 Jul, 2007 6:04 pm Post subject: |
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Sean,
You took a nice looking sword and turned it into a beauty! Congratulations on a job well done!
Thanks for sharing the "how to". Grips from automotive chamois - that's genius!
David
"When war-gods meet to match their might,
who can tell the bravest born?
Many a hero never made a hole
in another man's breast."
- Sigurd, The Lay of Fafnir
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Christian Henry Tobler
Location: Oxford, CT Joined: 25 Aug 2003
Posts: 704
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Sean Flynt
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Torsten F.H. Wilke
Location: Irvine Spectrum, CA Joined: 01 Jul 2006
Posts: 250
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Posted: Fri 27 Jul, 2007 8:29 pm Post subject: |
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Sean, thank you much for the info you included in your posts. It amazes me how simplicity can be so effective, especially in upgrading a project sword. Please also pardon the sarcasm in my earlier post, I was in a rare mood that day...
By the way, is the pronounced hexagonal cross section of the upper blade portion a normal occurance in period?
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Greyson Brown
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Posted: Sat 28 Jul, 2007 7:29 am Post subject: |
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Sean Flynt wrote: | By the way, the cord I used for both the underwrap and temporary overwrap was just neon-orange cotton cord from Lowe's. The orange grip, pre-leather, actually looked very cool. The risers are hemp. |
No one will ever see the orange, so it doesn't matter, but if you prefer, both True Value and Hobby Lobby have neutral parcel twine in a couple of sizes. I don't remember which size I got, but any of them could be usable.
Also, it's not a very large selection, but Albion does have the Squire Line for around $450. The grip cores are nicely shaped, but the leather really does benefit from an upgrade. Of course, there is only so much modification that can be done on an Albion, too. I guess it all depends on your interests and goals.
-Grey
"So long as I can keep the path of honor I am well content."
-Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, The White Company
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Sean Flynt
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Sean Flynt
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Posted: Mon 30 Jul, 2007 6:46 am Post subject: |
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[quote="Greyson Brown"] Sean Flynt wrote: | Also, it's not a very large selection, but Albion does have the Squire Line for around $450. The grip cores are nicely shaped, but the leather really does benefit from an upgrade. Of course, there is only so much modification that can be done on an Albion, too. I guess it all depends on your interests and goals.
-Grey |
Excellent point, and one I forget because there's nothing in that lineup that appeals to me personally. But that's a good opportunity for somebody interested in earlier periods. If Albion would add to the Squire line a simple longsword of ca. 1500-1525, I'd want one. The blunt edge is a bit off-putting, though. But, yes, these swords could easily be dressed up.
-Sean
Author of the Little Hammer novel
https://www.amazon.com/Little-Hammer-Sean-Flynt/dp/B08XN7HZ82/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=little+hammer+book&qid=1627482034&sr=8-1
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Christopher Lee
Location: Sunshine Coast, Australia Joined: 18 Apr 2006
Posts: 160
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Posted: Tue 11 Sep, 2007 7:30 pm Post subject: |
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Sorry if this is a truly dumb question, but how did you remove the colour of the cross and take it back to satin finsh? What method did you use and how would a person go about it?
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J. Pav
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Posted: Wed 12 Sep, 2007 3:20 am Post subject: |
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Christopher Lee wrote: | Sorry if this is a truly dumb question, but how did you remove the colour of the cross and take it back to satin finsh? What method did you use and how would a person go about it? |
I'd suggest a good long rubbing with medium, then fine scotch-brite pads.
For a shinier finish, continue with sandpaper, getting finer and finer until atleast 1000 grit.
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