Info Favorites Register Log in
myArmoury.com Discussion Forums

Forum index Memberlist Usergroups Spotlight Topics Search
Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > Valsgarde sword Reply to topic
This is a standard topic Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next 
Author Message
Andres M. Chesini Remic




Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
Joined: 17 Dec 2008

Posts: 33

PostPosted: Thu 11 Jun, 2009 8:35 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'm always happy when someone brings this post back to life Big Grin

As I sayed some months ago, I browsed the files of the history museum of sweden, wich has information on the helmets of both vendel and valsgaarde, but I didn't find anything on the swords...
Are these, in fact, in this museum? If not, where are they?
(Did anyone actually saw them?)

All this question are because I'm interested on the materials and building procedures:
Are the guards made of bronce? brass? gold, perhaps?
What is the cloissone holding? Is it amber? some kind of stone? garnet, maybe?
Is the "cap" of the pommel hilt hollow? Is the tang riveted after the last layer of the pommel hilt, or one of the layers has a hole to cover the riveted end?
Do the flat faces of the hilts have any decoration? (Some pics show a few, but... the others?)


Andres

"El que no viene por donde debiera, no viene a lo que dice - P. B. Palacios ~ Almafuerte"
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website MSN Messenger ICQ Number
Matthew Bunker




Location: Somerset UK
Joined: 02 Apr 2009

Posts: 483

PostPosted: Fri 12 Jun, 2009 12:37 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Andres,

I was lucky enough to spend a couple of weeks in Sweden and Denmark three years ago and got to visit a lot of museums.

There are a few select items from the Vendel/Valsgarde burials in the National Musuem in Stockholm, in the 'Gold Room' down in the basement. Unfortunately, security is very tight there and photography is not allowed so I've got no record of those.

There are a few items in the Gustavianum Museum in Upsalla, which I've got photos of but the vast majority of the Vendel/Valsgarde collection is in the purpose built museum at Gamla Uppsala, next to the King's Mounds. Again, photography is not allowed within the museum but I'm afraid that temptation proved too great...especially as I had the whole gallery to myself. The pictures I've got aren't brilliant (the display cases are very well lit and highly reflective) but, as long as the site owners here don't mind, I'm happy to put them up here.

I do have some knowledge as to the construction questions that you ask but I'll eave them for Paul to answer as his will be much more informative.

"If a Greek can do it, two Englishman certainly can !"
View user's profile Send private message
Matthew Bunker




Location: Somerset UK
Joined: 02 Apr 2009

Posts: 483

PostPosted: Fri 12 Jun, 2009 2:23 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here's one shot that should be okay to post, taken with museum permission. Shows of fthe combination of stamped gold sheet and silver gilt elements, as well as the garnets in the pommel cap.

You can clearly see that the pommel cap iteself is hollow to allow for the head of the tang.



 Attachment: 85.12 KB
pommel.JPG


"If a Greek can do it, two Englishman certainly can !"
View user's profile Send private message
Victor Genke





Joined: 24 Jul 2010
Reading list: 1 book

Posts: 9

PostPosted: Sat 24 Jul, 2010 12:59 pm    Post subject: Migration Period Sword from the Romano-Germanic Museum         Reply with quote

Below are the photos of the migration period ring sword that I took in the Romano-Germanic Museum in Cologne, Germany. Note the construction of the scabbard.

The inscription said:

Das Ringknaufschwert stammt aus einem Kriegergrab des fränkischen Friedhofs von Bad Wünnenberg-Fürstenberg.
Die aus verschiedenen Werkstoffen (Holz, Leder, Fell, Hanfschnur) gearbeitete Schwertscheide hatte sich im Boden so gut erhalten, dass sie rekonstruiert werden konnte.
Beim Nachbau der Schwertscheide im Rahmen eines Forschungsprojektes entdeckten die Restauratoren die zeitgenössischen Herstellungstechniken wieder.

2. Hälfte 6. Jahrhundert



 Attachment: 127.78 KB
IMG_1576.jpg


 Attachment: 140.96 KB
IMG_1574.jpg


 Attachment: 141.07 KB
IMG_1573.jpg

View user's profile Send private message
Matthew Bunker




Location: Somerset UK
Joined: 02 Apr 2009

Posts: 483

PostPosted: Thu 05 Aug, 2010 6:20 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Lovely!

If you've got higher res copies of the scabbard pictures, could I ask you to email them to me please? Bigger the better.

Thanks

Matt

"If a Greek can do it, two Englishman certainly can !"
View user's profile Send private message
Artis Aboltins




PostPosted: Thu 05 Aug, 2010 9:39 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Matthew Bunker wrote:
Lovely!

If you've got higher res copies of the scabbard pictures, could I ask you to email them to me please? Bigger the better.

Thanks

Matt


Me as well! Any information about the scabbards is really worth getting as they are really interesting and often overlooked part of the gear...
View user's profile Send private message
Matthew Bunker




Location: Somerset UK
Joined: 02 Apr 2009

Posts: 483

PostPosted: Fri 06 Aug, 2010 12:24 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Artis Aboltins wrote:


Me as well! Any information about the scabbards is really worth getting as they are really interesting and often overlooked part of the gear...


I make 'em, specialising in late roman and migration era scabbards and sheaths.

"If a Greek can do it, two Englishman certainly can !"
View user's profile Send private message
Artis Aboltins




PostPosted: Fri 06 Aug, 2010 1:08 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Matthew Bunker wrote:
Artis Aboltins wrote:


Me as well! Any information about the scabbards is really worth getting as they are really interesting and often overlooked part of the gear...


I make 'em, specialising in late roman and migration era scabbards and sheaths.


Well I also make the scabbards, and the more I studdy migration era ones, the more I am fascinated with them...
View user's profile Send private message
Victor Genke





Joined: 24 Jul 2010
Reading list: 1 book

Posts: 9

PostPosted: Mon 09 Aug, 2010 12:56 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Matthew,
Artis,

I've sent you the original photos.
View user's profile Send private message
Matt Corbin




Location: U.S.A.
Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Likes: 9 pages
Reading list: 12 books

Posts: 336

PostPosted: Mon 09 Aug, 2010 4:24 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Victor Genke wrote:
Matthew,
Artis,

I've sent you the original photos.


Could we possibly get those posted here on the forum? Maybe in a smaller size?

“This was the age of heroes, some legendary, some historical . . . the misty borderland of history where fact and legend mingle.”
- R. Ewart Oakeshott
View user's profile Send private message
Artis Aboltins




PostPosted: Mon 09 Aug, 2010 8:43 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Matt Corbin wrote:
Victor Genke wrote:
Matthew,
Artis,

I've sent you the original photos.


Could we possibly get those posted here on the forum? Maybe in a smaller size?


The smaller ones are already there - a couple of posts upwards Happy. Thank you again for the photos, Victor.
View user's profile Send private message
Matt Corbin




Location: U.S.A.
Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Likes: 9 pages
Reading list: 12 books

Posts: 336

PostPosted: Mon 09 Aug, 2010 8:52 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'm an idiot Worried

For some reason I was thinking there were more that hadn't been posted yet.

“This was the age of heroes, some legendary, some historical . . . the misty borderland of history where fact and legend mingle.”
- R. Ewart Oakeshott
View user's profile Send private message
Matthew Bunker




Location: Somerset UK
Joined: 02 Apr 2009

Posts: 483

PostPosted: Tue 10 Aug, 2010 12:32 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Many thanks Victor. Excellent and useful.
"If a Greek can do it, two Englishman certainly can !"
View user's profile Send private message
David Huggins




Location: UK
Joined: 25 Jul 2007

Posts: 490

PostPosted: Tue 10 Aug, 2010 1:16 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Matthew Bunker wrote:
Artis Aboltins wrote:


Me as well! Any information about the scabbards is really worth getting as they are really interesting and often overlooked part of the gear...


I make 'em, specialising in late roman and migration era scabbards and sheaths.


And very nice they are Matt Big Grin

Dave

and he who stands and sheds blood with us, shall be as a brother.
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Victor Genke





Joined: 24 Jul 2010
Reading list: 1 book

Posts: 9

PostPosted: Tue 10 Aug, 2010 2:09 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Matt Corbin wrote:
Could we possibly get those posted here on the forum?


Hi Matt,

One more photo of rare objects from the same museum: Migration Period Gothic warrior's helmet, shield boss, buckle and sword scabbard, from the Black Sea region:



 Attachment: 73.76 KB
gothic.jpg
Gothic warrior's helmet, shield boss, buckle and sword scabbard.
View user's profile Send private message
Martin Fasching





Joined: 27 Mar 2009

Posts: 1

PostPosted: Wed 05 Jan, 2011 7:03 am    Post subject: Bad Wünnenberg-Fürstenberg         Reply with quote

@ Viktor Genke: would you please send me the original pictures from the scabbard to? I reconstuct a spatha from the early 7th century and found this type of sheath decoration on a corresponding piece from Aubing (Germany), wich fits perfectly to my project. Your pictures would be more than usefull.
Greetings from Austria,
Martin Fasching
View user's profile Send private message
Johan Gemvik




Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Joined: 10 Nov 2009

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 793

PostPosted: Fri 03 Jun, 2011 7:54 am    Post subject: Re: Migration Period Sword from the Romano-Germanic Museum         Reply with quote

Many thanks Victor, those are some excellent photos showing the scabbard construction layers -wood, leather, string for decoration and then wrapped with glued linen. That looks like casein glue lamination as it gets glossy like that. That's not often seen. Giebigs diagrams of similar finds shows a more oval blade recess than this straight cut that's very common in modern reproductions. Perhaps both types were in use at the time.

Very interesting that the original scabbard is reasonably intact also given the age, you can even see the linen fabric in some small remaining sections.

"The Dwarf sees farther than the Giant when he has the giant's shoulder to mount on" -Coleridge
View user's profile Send private message
Ian Hutchison




Location: Louisiana / Nordrhein-Westholland
Joined: 27 Nov 2007

Posts: 625

PostPosted: Fri 03 Jun, 2011 11:50 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Victor Genke wrote:
Matt Corbin wrote:
Could we possibly get those posted here on the forum?


Hi Matt,

One more photo of rare objects from the same museum: Migration Period Gothic warrior's helmet, shield boss, buckle and sword scabbard, from the Black Sea region:


Victor, thanks for the photographs. Do you remember anything more about the helmet? Do you have any other photos? I haven't seen that one before.

'We are told that the pen is mightier than the sword, but I know which of these weapons I would choose.' - Adrian Carton de Wiart
View user's profile Send private message
Victor Genke





Joined: 24 Jul 2010
Reading list: 1 book

Posts: 9

PostPosted: Wed 15 Jun, 2011 2:31 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi Ian,

The inscription said:

Ostgotische Waffen
8 Schwertscheidenbeschlag aus Gold mit granatbesetztem Mundband. Fundort: Kertsch.
9 Helm mit Silberbesatz und edelsteinverzierung. Fundort: Südrußland.
10 Schildbuckel mit Nachahmungen von völkerwanderungszeitlichen Münzen. Fundort: unbekannt.
View user's profile Send private message
Victor Genke





Joined: 24 Jul 2010
Reading list: 1 book

Posts: 9

PostPosted: Wed 15 Jun, 2011 2:37 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here is another photo of the helmet:


 Attachment: 131.95 KB
IMG_1606.jpg
Gothic helm
View user's profile Send private message


Display posts from previous:   
Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > Valsgarde sword
Page 2 of 3 Reply to topic
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next All times are GMT - 8 Hours

View previous topic :: View next topic
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum






All contents © Copyright 2003-2024 myArmoury.com — All rights reserved
Discussion forums powered by phpBB © The phpBB Group
Switch to the Basic Low-bandwidth Version of the forum