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Lafayette C Curtis
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 Posted: Thu 02 Aug, 2007 9:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Jonathan Hopkins wrote: | | Nate C. wrote: | | The German messers (Grossemesser & Kriegsmesser) are differentiated from swords by their hilt construction. Swords have a grip that wraps the tang in some fashion, either glued around the tang or actually pierced by the tang with the pommel peened or screwed on. the messer is built like a knife with grip slabs riveted to the full profile tang. Hence the German word messer (German for knife) in the name. |
Thanks for the clarification!
Jonathan |
I'm very grateful for this clarification as well, since I didn't get any to my satisfaction back then when I asked the question in another thread--though admittedly I didn't press the question far enough or made it sufficiently prominent to be noticeable.
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Stefan Toivonen
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| Posted: Fri 03 Aug, 2007 8:46 am Post subject: |
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| Matthew G.M. Korenkiewicz wrote: |
the ulta-wide guard was not an uncommon historical characteristic of said sword. There was a bit
of discussion between myself an Antonio Cejunior with regards to knocking off a bit of the guard's
length, but I decided to keep the unusual look ...
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Beautiful sword and scabbard. I think it was a good choice in keeping them that long, it really makes it stand out. Always liked that kind of look, the combination of a cruciform sword and a sabre.
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Christian Fletcher
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Fri 03 Aug, 2007 9:27 am Post subject: |
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Tinker's blades are among the most beautiful that come through my shop. This is the first time I've had an opportunity to rehilt one and now I'm hoping I'll get the chance more often. Maybe it's time to give Tinker a call...
Christian Fletcher
www.christianfletcher.com
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Michael Pearce
Industry Professional
Location: Seattle, Wa. Joined: 21 Feb 2004
Posts: 365
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| Posted: Fri 03 Aug, 2007 10:35 am Post subject: |
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I think that this came out beautifully. I am quite pleased with the modifications to the cross and the replacement handle. The original handle was merely functional but the new one is 'more period' and looks terrific. The scabbard is simply fantastic! Talented folks like Christian are why I insist that customers are better off having the scabbard made after-market.
I am very glad to see that this has come out so well, especially given all the problems getting the order out to it's original spec.
Michael 'Tinker' Pearce
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Then one night, as my car was going backwards through a cornfield at 90mph, I had an epiphany...
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Steve Grisetti
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| Posted: Sat 04 Aug, 2007 8:15 am Post subject: |
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Well done, Matthew. I recall your posts, some time ago, about your desire to commission such a sword. The resulting combination of Tinker's blade and Christian Fletcher's rehilt and scabbard came our very nicely. I have seen other, vaguely similar Tinker sabres on the web, but I like this blade that he did for you much better. And I didn't care for the appearance of the functional hilt, though I expect it worked very well. I much prefer the more historical look of the new hilt. And, of course, the CF scabbard does wonders for the whole package. Congratulations.
"...dismount thy tuck, be yare in thy preparation, for thy assailant is quick, skilful, and deadly."
- Sir Toby Belch
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Matthew G.M. Korenkiewicz
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| Posted: Sat 04 Aug, 2007 2:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Christian Fletcher wrote: | | Tinker's blades are among the most beautiful that come through my shop. This is the first time I've had an opportunity to rehilt one and now I'm hoping I'll get the chance more often. Maybe it's time to give Tinker a call... |
I appreciate CF taking a moment, at my request, to comment on this thread. He has done
excellent work on a number of my swords -- some I still have, and some I have parted with.
And I have yet to be disappointed.
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Matthew G.M. Korenkiewicz
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| Posted: Sat 04 Aug, 2007 3:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Michael 'Tinker' Pearce wrote: | I think that this came out beautifully. I am quite pleased with the modifications to the cross and the replacement handle. The original handle was merely functional but the new one is 'more period' and looks terrific. The scabbard is simply fantastic! Talented folks like Christian are why I insist that customers are better off having the scabbard made after-market.
I am very glad to see that this has come out so well, especially given all the problems getting the order out to it's original spec. |
I also appreciate Tinker-mon taking a moment to comment on this thread, althought we didn't
have the smoothest of associations during the time it took to complete this commission ( and
something's to be said about that ... ). Here's a pic of the old grip in hand, the new grip in hand,
and a pic CF used as a guide ...
 
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Jason Elrod
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| Posted: Sat 04 Aug, 2007 5:19 pm Post subject: |
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I've been wondering, how did the shortening of the grip effect the handling of the saber?
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Matthew G.M. Korenkiewicz
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| Posted: Sat 04 Aug, 2007 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Steve Grisetti wrote: | | Well done, Matthew. I recall your posts, some time ago, about your desire to commission such a sword. The resulting combination of Tinker's blade and Christian Fletcher's rehilt and scabbard came our very nicely. I have seen other, vaguely similar Tinker sabres on the web, but I like this blade that he did for you much better. And I didn't care for the appearance of the functional hilt, though I expect it worked very well. I much prefer the more historical look of the new hilt. And, of course, the CF scabbard does wonders for the whole package. Congratulations. |
Thanks, Steve. What was interesting about the functional hilt was how incredibly solid it felt with
the thumb-ring. CF took off somehwere around an inch and it did not occur to me until afterwards that the
balance might be screwed up. Even with the new grip, the thumb-ring is what brings solidity and control
to the tip-heavy, powerful blade. Remove the thumb-ring ? and I think one would need a very strong grip
to hold onto this sword properly -- or barring that, a more prominent pommel-end to prevent slippage ....
if that all makes sense.
One of the great characteristics of CF's scabbard work / detail is the attention to the historical treatment
at the throat of the scabbard. The dual channels on either side which allow the hilt to actually grip the
scabbard -- I believe the two pieces running parellell on either side of the blade are called languettes(sp).
You'd think I'd know all the parts and their names, wouldn't you ? B-)
I'd like to ask Tinker-mon, if he's still looking in, to address the topic of controlling the curve of his particular
blades. Please correct me if I'm mistaken, Tinker-mon -- by the way, that's my own nickname for him if you
all haven't guessed B-) -- but I'm under an impression, created souly by me, that -- because the blade was
heat treated elsewhere -- you couldn't necessarily create as much curve, or control the curve, as much as I
might have preferred, or you might have wanted to ?
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Matthew G.M. Korenkiewicz
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| Posted: Sat 04 Aug, 2007 5:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Jason Elrod wrote: | | I've been wondering, how did the shortening of the grip effect the handling of the saber? |
Hi Jason, I just noted that fact above. Sad to say, inspite of my passion for this particular design,
I'm not likely to mount a horse and ride off to practice chopping targets. But I get the impression,
as mentioned above ( and I could be totally full of bananas ) that without the thumb-ring, gripping
and using this sword would take a strong-handed individual. Its possible this sword might have
benefitted from a meatier but still historic looking grip. Here's anoter pic from my files of a replica
of a Polish Hussar L-hilted saber in hand. You can see where the little finger ends up on the grip,
and sense how important the thumb-ring is ...
 
This is also a good pic to show how some thumb-rings have been designed with what appear
to be rivets. Give Tinker-mon credit for making the thumb-ring what appears to be a looping flow
of steel that -- if you think about the thumb and weight on the structure -- is a much more solid
design.
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Michael Pearce
Industry Professional
Location: Seattle, Wa. Joined: 21 Feb 2004
Posts: 365
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| Posted: Sat 04 Aug, 2007 8:54 pm Post subject: |
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Usually control of the curve is pretty good- cut the steel to shape and it comes out that shape. Sometimes a bar of steel is stressed differently than I've come to expect. A variety of things can things can affect this- like the adjustment of the machine rolling the steel or the temperature of the steel when rolled. This blade and some others from the same lot of steel 'de-sabered;' they actually straightened somewhat in the heat-treatment process. This was the first and only time that I've encountered this little quirk so far a s I can recall and I have no explanation other than unusual stress patterns in the steel bar. It's rather more common to encounter 'quirks' like this in forged blades or with other methods of heat treatment like edge quenching. Usually the problem that I have is with straight blades curving as they narrow towards the tip, but this has been less common of late.
Michael 'Tinker' Pearce
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Then one night, as my car was going backwards through a cornfield at 90mph, I had an epiphany...
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Henrik Zoltan Toth
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| Posted: Sun 05 Aug, 2007 2:14 am Post subject: |
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Wow!!!!!
It looks much better with the hungarian hilt and scabbard. (I'll post some pics abotr hung. sabres and polish karabelas)
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Matthew G.M. Korenkiewicz
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| Posted: Sun 05 Aug, 2007 7:44 am Post subject: |
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| Henrik Zoltan Toth wrote: | Wow!!!!!
It looks much better with the hungarian hilt and scabbard. (I'll post some pics abotr hung. sabres and polish karabelas) |
That would be great, Henrik. I've noted in the few sword oriented forums I've posted in that the
European-style saber -- usually, it seems, identified by the rather standard Napoleonic saber --
is rarely discussed. Some of the things I've wondered about is how and from where the saber
originated -- from the Middle East ? from the Far East ? Would someone actually suggest there
is a link to Japanese-style swords ? or is the genesis of the saber relatively unique ?
You also reminded me that both myself and Tinker-mon misspelled karabela. And that the sword
he made for me is NOT a karabela-style saber -- something I was reminded of some time ago by
a gentleman from another forum. A quick search dug up this diagram for a karabela -- note the grip
and hilt.
It almost appears that the grip -- a rendition of an eagle's profile -- is NOT peened, but rather similar
to the messer discussed briefly above. Where the tang of the sword is sandwiched on both sides by
the grip, and fastened accordingly.
As everyone can now see, the original plan evolved into a completely different historical representation.
In thinking about discussing The Custom Experience it is privately been difficult for me -- after some
revelations and the passing of time -- NOT to feel responsible for, quite frankly, ruining -- well, lets not say
ruining, but changing -- my own plan. I sincerely believed Tinker-mon could make The Polish Hussar
Saber because -- even though I have never put hammer to steel, or sandpaper to wood -- the sword I
saw with my mind's eye did NOT look like a difficult get. I could see the Hussar, horseless after a battle,
hunching over a small fire in a thicket, his saber sticking up out of the snow, firelight playing off the L-hilt and
huge chopper of a blade. If you follow me ...
When the project ran longer than the original due date, with few encouraging updates, it might be safe
to suggest I became a custom-craftsman's nightmare. Twice requesting refunds; renegotiating to continue;
becoming increasingly discouraged; finally cancelling The Hussar and settling with Tinker-mon on a
different direction : A sword similar to something he had done before that would be quicker to finish. Certainly
there is a helluvalot more to the experience than that, thoughts I hope to arrange so that this entire affair does
not come off as ... hmmm ... a warning as opposed to being a bit more enlightening ....
And so, The Tinkerbella ,,,
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Matthew G.M. Korenkiewicz
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| Posted: Mon 06 Aug, 2007 4:23 pm Post subject: |
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Here are some links I've discovered that helped inspire this sword, as well as ( I hope )
the future creation of The Polish Hussar Saber ... Some of the sites offer links that
are also worth looking at.
http://www.polishhussarsupply.com/index.html
http://www.collectiblefirearms.com/index.html
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?mode=hybrid&t=67
http://www.gnwtc.com/
And I certainly can't forget one of my starting points here at myArmoury ...
http://www.myArmoury.com/feature_hussars.html
As odd as this sounds, I stumbled across these movies based on the books by Henryk
Sienkiewicz, which take place in Poland / Russia / Lithuania / Hungary ( I believe ) around
the 16th - 17th centuries. The first of the three movies is called With Fire And Sword,
the second is The Deluge, and the third Colonel Wolodyjowski ...
http://www.amazon.com/Fire-Sword-Ogniem-Miecz...B0001DMW7A
Yes, I know it may seem a bit silly to be in part inspired by movies, but I found these three
films -- which if you happen to be a member of an online rental program, you should be able
to find -- rather interesting. Sometimes the quality is a bit tv-ish, and the lingo is a bit stilted,
but there is a good deal of excitement, story, and grandeur. Not to mention plenty of sabers
for the nut like me to try and get a better look at ... B-)
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