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Troy G L Williams
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 Posted: Mon 30 Jul, 2007 12:39 am Post subject: MRL Embossed Viking Helmet |
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I am seeking opinions on the Museum Replicas Embossed Viking Helmet. Historical or Fantasy? That is the question. http://www.museumreplicas.com/museumreplicas/...url][/url]
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v/r,
Troy Williams
"It’s merely a flesh wound." -Monty Python and the Holy Grail
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Mike Arledge
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| Posted: Mon 30 Jul, 2007 3:56 am Post subject: |
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Its pure fantasy. For the money, get the hanwei gjermundbu helm. There aren't many things out there that are really viking helms. The gjermundbu is one of the only really complete remans of a viking helm.
http://casiberia.com/product_details.asp?id=AH2190N
Mike J Arledge
The Dude Abides
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Joe Fults
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| Posted: Mon 30 Jul, 2007 6:24 am Post subject: |
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The pieces all look cast and modern to my eye. It may be nice for what it is, but it does not appear historical, to me, in the photo.
"The goal shouldn’t be to avoid being evil; it should be to actively do good." - Danah Boyd
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Nathan Keysor
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| Posted: Mon 30 Jul, 2007 2:29 pm Post subject: |
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I had the hanwei gjermundbu helmet and was a little dissapointed in it. It looks better in the picture than in person. The antiquing looked artificial up close and the mail wasn't very nice. I have the hanwei Sutton Hoo which is pretty nice. I have been eyeing the MRL Coppergate helm but I don't want to get burnt again.
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner.
Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!"
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Hugo Voisine
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| Posted: Mon 30 Jul, 2007 3:50 pm Post subject: |
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I own the Albion viking helmet and the official "Beowulf" helmet from the B&G movie with G. Butler. Both are nice viking helmets, with some concessions to fantasy. 
I know one man who owns the MRL embossed helmet. It's a nice fantasy helmet, well constructed and apparently comfortable to wear. But it's still a fantasy helmet.
« Que dites-vous ?... C'est inutile ?... Je le sais !
Mais on ne se bat pas dans l'espoir du succès !
Oh ! non, c'est bien plus beau lorsque c'est inutile ! »
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Chuck Russell
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| Posted: Mon 30 Jul, 2007 7:06 pm Post subject: Re: MRL Embossed Viking Helmet |
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pure fantasy
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Troy G L Williams
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| Posted: Mon 30 Jul, 2007 8:40 pm Post subject: |
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Please keep your thoughts coming. Would it be safe to say that the vikings used Spangen Helmet's or some type of Norman type helms since they basically pillaged whatever armor they could? Would there really be a "true" viking helmet other than a burial helmet for a king or someone well to do? Is there a good Spangen Helmet that would be true to this era and possibility? I am fairly new to the viking era as I normally dwell into the 14th Century but, as with most people, it is interesting to me. 
v/r,
Troy Williams
"It’s merely a flesh wound." -Monty Python and the Holy Grail
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Jean Thibodeau
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| Posted: Mon 30 Jul, 2007 9:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Troy G L Williams wrote: | | Please keep your thoughts coming. Would it be safe to say that the vikings used Spangen Helmet's or some type of Norman type helms since they basically pillaged whatever armor they could? Would there really be a "true" viking helmet other than a burial helmet for a king or someone well to do? Is there a good Spangen Helmet that would be true to this era and possibility? I am fairly new to the viking era as I normally dwell into the 14th Century but, as with most people, it is interesting to me. |
Well, whatever the Franks or Carolingians were using at the time might have been used by the Vikings from defeated foes as war booty ? Would they then have copied the style or adapted the style in their own Viking made armour ? Seems like a high probability since their swords often came from Frankish sources by trade or war.
The Spangenhelm seems to me related to late Roman helmets that were highly influenced by the style of arms used by Germanic mercenaries or auxiliary troops: Some cross influences there probably with the Romans " barbarizing " their gear and the Germanic Spangenhelms being influenced by Roman designs. ( All maybes ? ).
The early Spangenhelms with ear flaps look a lot like the Sassanian influenced late Roman helm and seem related to the Viking spectacle helm or the Vendel type helms.
http://www.iranchamber.com/history/sassanids/sassanian_army.php
So Viking or pre-Viking warriors returning home from service as Byzantine mercenaries might have brought back the more ornate styles of the vendel period and the true Viking helms could have been simpler/cheaper version that evolved into whatever the true Viking helms were like. ( The problem being that we are mostly guessing what they looked like since only one spectacle helm is thought to be a true Viking helm: Was this a typical type ? Hard to tell with only one example that I know of ).
Oh, finally the Spangenhelm seems to have been a very universal type in Europe in Viking and Norman times, and Norman times were only a couple of generations away from the height of the Viking period.
( Hope I got most of this right as I'm just using my general memory of readings over the years and not referring to many specific sources. )
You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Troy G L Williams
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| Posted: Mon 30 Jul, 2007 9:43 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the link Jean. I will read through it. 
So, even the nasal helm design without any cheek guards could be a possible Viking age helmet? This brings me back to the helmet in question. It has all the characteristics of a possible Viking age helmet. This could make the overall design more of a historic "possibility" then fantasy. Is the helmet too ornate?
v/r,
Troy Williams
"It’s merely a flesh wound." -Monty Python and the Holy Grail
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Troy G L Williams
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| Posted: Mon 30 Jul, 2007 10:15 pm Post subject: |
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Given Jean's link this helmet could very well have existed and/or been used in the Viking age. Oh the dilemma. 
This helmet is from My Armstreet Store on ebay.
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v/r,
Troy Williams
"It’s merely a flesh wound." -Monty Python and the Holy Grail
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Mike Arledge
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| Posted: Tue 31 Jul, 2007 3:53 am Post subject: |
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That is more of a Russian helmet. And while the Viking did make headway into Russia. I have not seen that style mentioned outside of Russian excavations.
Mike J Arledge
The Dude Abides
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Nathan Keysor
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| Posted: Tue 31 Jul, 2007 4:06 am Post subject: |
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Given that a statue of Buddha was found in a bog in Norway(?) it would seem safe to say that the vikings had a good deal of contact with other cultures. I seem to recall that viking art has been shown to have been influenced by Muslim styles so anything is possible as long as it is from the same period.
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner.
Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!"
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Jean Thibodeau
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| Posted: Tue 31 Jul, 2007 7:22 am Post subject: |
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| Nathan Keysor wrote: | | Given that a statue of Buddha was found in a bog in Norway(?) it would seem safe to say that the vikings had a good deal of contact with other cultures. I seem to recall that viking art has been shown to have been influenced by Muslim styles so anything is possible as long as it is from the same period. |
Maybe I could joke that the Vikings were like very well travelled tourists with a bad attitude a lot of the time: Party hardy and pillage the village, write a Saga about the trip ....... go home with souvenirs and show off the nicest helms from far and wide, i.e. Drakkar as tour bus: " If it's Tuesday it must be Novgorov ".   
( Source of joke if the reference is too obscure: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?re...8382679EDE )
You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Christopher Johnson
Location: Palo Alto, CA Joined: 23 Apr 2007
Posts: 13
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| Posted: Tue 31 Jul, 2007 1:19 pm Post subject: |
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So if one's looking for the maximum historical authenticity in a Gjerxxxx helmet, is there a particular manufacturer that people here would recommend?
Chris
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Nicolas Bertolero
Location: Fresno, CA. Joined: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 17
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| Posted: Tue 31 Jul, 2007 2:12 pm Post subject: |
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I have a replica of the Coppergate helmet from Museum Replicas. It is an Anglo-Saxon spangenhelm but was found in a Viking stronghold in York. The vikings might have made similar helms or adopted this style as well.
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Godspeed,
Nicolas Bertolero
"In all of us there is a hunger, marrow deep, to know our heritage, to know who we are, and where we have come from. Without this enriching knowledge, there is a hollow yearning, no matter what our attainments in life,there is a most disquieting loneliness." Alex Haley
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Chuck Russell
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| Posted: Tue 31 Jul, 2007 5:15 pm Post subject: |
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next you'll need a katana to go with the kit hehehe just kidding.
that russian helm has my interest. do you know what it is based off of? shouldnt it be a spangen construction? or is a raised bowl?
typical viking helmets are spangen helmets with no nasal, nasal or occulars (goggles) no cheek plates. now weither or not they had all the embelishments as bronze/brass work etc depends on true dating or areas that the helmets were from/found
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Ville Vinje
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| Posted: Wed 01 Aug, 2007 3:08 am Post subject: |
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| Nathan Keysor wrote: | | Given that a statue of Buddha was found in a bog in Norway(?) it would seem safe to say that the vikings had a good deal of contact with other cultures. I seem to recall that viking art has been shown to have been influenced by Muslim styles so anything is possible as long as it is from the same period. |
No, it was not in Norway. The Buddha staty was found in Helgö Sweden. It dates from 9th century.
http://www.buddhistforbundet.no/sbf/images/buddha.jpg
Sorry for going OT.
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Troy G L Williams
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| Posted: Wed 01 Aug, 2007 7:48 am Post subject: |
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| Chuck Russell wrote: |
that russian helm has my interest. do you know what it is based off of? shouldnt it be a spangen construction? or is a raised bowl?
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If you are talking about the helmet below, they are listing it as a Norman Helmet, 14 ga. steel. I would think it should be in spangen construction traditionally but it appears to be a raised bowl. There is nothing in the description that speaks of how the helmet is created. The helmet appeared to look like the Sassanian Cavalry helmet in the picture in this link http://www.iranchamber.com/history/sassanids/sassanian_army.php
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v/r,
Troy Williams
"It’s merely a flesh wound." -Monty Python and the Holy Grail
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Nathan Keysor
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| Posted: Wed 01 Aug, 2007 7:57 am Post subject: |
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| Ville Vinje wrote: | | Nathan Keysor wrote: | | Given that a statue of Buddha was found in a bog in Norway(?) it would seem safe to say that the vikings had a good deal of contact with other cultures. I seem to recall that viking art has been shown to have been influenced by Muslim styles so anything is possible as long as it is from the same period. |
No, it was not in Norway. The Buddha staty was found in Helgö Sweden. It dates from 9th century.
http://www.buddhistforbundet.no/sbf/images/buddha.jpg
Sorry for going OT. |
Thanks for clearing that up I couldn't rememeber where it had been found.
Here is a page that show's some Vendel helmets along with an illustration of a helmet similar to the one above
http://www.geocities.com/reginheim/equipment.html
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"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner.
Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!"
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Matt Bayley
Location: England Joined: 17 Jan 2005
Posts: 10
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| Posted: Fri 17 Aug, 2007 4:09 pm Post subject: |
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Well i can speak with authority on this one
The embossed viking helmet design was actualy taken from a Norton Armouries polyurethane helmet. The design is fantasy, you'll notice the cheek designs are celtic dogs while much of the knotwork is later anglo-saxon style, hence when it was made it was labelled as the "celtic fantasy spangenhelm". The guy who made it usualy does real nice Anglo-Saxon kit this one was just a pimped up spangenhelm for the fantasy buyers (primary market was LRP).
I worked for Norton armouries for about 6 years or so, finished this year, going full time for myself working steel again now.
Matt
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This is a standard topic