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Alex Oster




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PostPosted: Tue 24 Jul, 2007 5:59 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

My $.02: Albion priced swords are heirloom quality pieces.
However, when I just want a representative of a style, one I'm not super crazy about, I find the Hanwei stuff perfect. I won't feel bad if it gets dammaged, I don't feel bad about the money spent, I don't feel bad about letting others hold them, I don't feel bad about customizing them myself, and I feel even better about the "quantity" of (decent) "quality".

Check my collection.... Its a lot of MRL and Hanwei, but its still any eye catcher. I still plan on aiming for high ends on my personal favorites, but I love having an armoury of representitives to example for intrigued guests.


That being said, I'm glad to see this reviewed with good remarks. Where its not a style I have ever been nuts about, its definatley priced right to be a decent representative of the genre.

Thanks!

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Bryce Felperin




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PostPosted: Tue 24 Jul, 2007 6:55 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Chad Arnow wrote:
Grayson C. wrote:
http://sbgswordforum.proboards70.com/index.cgi?board=euromedieval&action=display&thread=1173406565&page=1

I'll let the pictures do the talking.


On that one, they used plastic for the grip. Has it failed? The threaded rod is welded on. Did it fail?

Many people are down on welded tangs, which is unfortunate. Del Tin uses welded tangs. Peter Johnsson has even stated he's used welded tangs before (I'm guessing forge-welded). The key is the quality of the weld. If done poorly, failure happens. Many historic swords had tangs of softer material (iron or less hard steel) forge-welded on. A softer tang can be of benefit

Does anyone know of this sword failing in use? That would be the real indicator of how badly those cut corners turned out. While I don't personally dig threaded pommels, it's what we see a lot of on swords in this price range. Some loosen up over time, but can be easily fixed with leather washers or Loctite. Some never come loose. Does this pommel loosen over time?

Bill Grandy reviewed the practical version of this sword and neither of the construction issues showed in those pictures seemed to cause any problems.

I agree it's not ideal or even my personal preference in swords I own. It's slightly disturbing actually. However, until reports of failure due to those issues surface, I'm not going to condemn it outright because of it. They use these features to help keep the cost down and appear to be doing a decent job. If one expects the same level of accuracy out of a Chen sword as they do an A&A or Albion, they'll be disappointed. Happy


I took apart my Lutel the other day to examine it's tang and construction. In summary it has a weld from hell that would probably support an elephant and that connects a half-inch screw to the sword's tang, which is also pretty robust.

Welds if done right can be very robust and strong. The details, like everything else in sword construction, are what make it all work. So if you build it right it won't matter unless you're pounding nails with your sword or using it as a sledge hammer.

Bryce
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Jean Henri Chandler




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PostPosted: Tue 24 Jul, 2007 7:40 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jeremy V. Krause wrote:
What's up with all this increasd interest in cheap swords- it's like there everywhere now. Waste of time- waste of time


Thats simple, I can explain it. It is because:

A) Not everybody is rich

B) Lower-end swords are actually getting better.

C) People want swords for different reasons,
(*like maybe just to cut a few water bottles so they can practice cutting and won't immediately ruin the nice Albion they buy for $1200)

D) Even the best high end swords are not perfect some people will tell you that any sword made via stock reduction, or any mass-produced sword at all isn't worth buying. But if we all bought exclusively from the worlds best blacksmiths who smelt their own iron there would be a 59 year waiting list for any sword.

I've seen a few MRL swords recently that weren't bad at all and I do own an Albion, so I can see what a good replica is like. From what i hear it sounds like the Gen II Lucerne isn't bad at all.. I'm personally even pretty happy with the Cold Steel Grosse messer I bought even though it's really more of an SLA. It is fun to cut with though.

Seems like I kind of jumped the gun on this particular sidesword though perhaps. I'll definitely wait until I get to check one out in real life before I plunked down any money, and the idea of a plastic handle really throws me off. Let alone a bent tang from just cutting a coke bottle. Of course, could have been a really bad or really unlucky cut (or both)

J

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Jean Henri Chandler




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PostPosted: Tue 24 Jul, 2007 7:46 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Mike Arledge wrote:

I began to wonder, after some time, if it wasn't the sword that was the problem, but my ever humble self. Fortunately I've gotten into the habit of recording myself as I make cuts, mostly so that my wife will know what happened if she ever finds me laying face down in the grass, and I made an amazing discovery.
I'm an idiot. .


Happy been there done that Happy very amusing post Mike, thanks for sharing the information.

J

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Mike Arledge




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PostPosted: Tue 24 Jul, 2007 7:48 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jean Henri Chandler wrote:
Mike Arledge wrote:

I began to wonder, after some time, if it wasn't the sword that was the problem, but my ever humble self. Fortunately I've gotten into the habit of recording myself as I make cuts, mostly so that my wife will know what happened if she ever finds me laying face down in the grass, and I made an amazing discovery.
I'm an idiot. .


Happy been there done that Happy very amusing post Mike, thanks for sharing the information.

J


That was not me, that was someone writing on SBG that I quoted in my post.

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Jean Henri Chandler




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PostPosted: Tue 24 Jul, 2007 7:49 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Mike Arledge wrote:

That was not me, that was someone writing on SBG that I quoted in my post.


Doh! WTF?! I guess I'm an idiot too Happy

See I knew I felt that way all the time...

Seriously though, I think a huge amount of cutting problems is in experience. The first time i cut I couldn't cut a pool noodle with a Albion Brescia Spadona. Now i can carrot coke bottles with a half-dull machete. You don't even have to strike that hard, it's just edge-alignment and followthrough... and proper body mechanics. For example, stepping with a cut often makes a rather immense amount of difference.

When you cut the milk bottles, look at the bottle, if you notice a curve in the cut, like a scooping effect, something is wrong with your form. The milk bottle is forgiving, it will be cut anyway. Coke bottle not so much. Also, make sure you are cutting near your center of percussion if you can (and if, being a cheap sword, it even has one, my Cold Steel Messer does not). That often makes a cut easier. Then when you get that down you can try different parts of the blade...


We actually made some guys strike with the waster several times with their eyes closed, so they could get used to the followthrough. A lot of people sort of flinch when they cut ... one guy was telling me hitting the bottle felt like hitting a brick wall, in the video you could see he was slowing down or flinching before the blade hit. Now he cuts perfectly.

I'd really like to try cutting a coke bottle with that Hanwei sidesword, plastic hilt notwithstanding.


J

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Michael G. Myers




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PostPosted: Tue 24 Jul, 2007 8:06 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

'Appreciate the review, Mike! As an MRL German Rapier seems to still be eluding me, this piece and an MRL Estoc I have on hand might be the way to something resembling the Wallace Collection's #A536.
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PostPosted: Tue 24 Jul, 2007 11:47 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Chad Arnow wrote:
I'm not a fan of screw-on pommels or plastic grips, but I am curious how detrimental they might be. In the past, Hanwei has used stainless steel for many of their complex hilts. So I guess plastic is par for the course...


The grip looks like a polycarbonate grip to me. If that's the case, it would make a tough, stable material with good shock absorption. It's not historically-correct, but it's a good choice for grip material. Not all "plastics" are the same, and not all of them are poor materials for such things as grips. Fact of the matter is, if the right polycarbonate is used, it could be argued it's actually a better material for grip cores than than wood for some uses.

I'm not saying I'm a proponent of polycarbonate grips. But I will say that the sword photographed in the linked topic likely did not fail because of its grip material.

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Bill Grandy
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PostPosted: Wed 25 Jul, 2007 4:52 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

You know, my Pheonix Metal Creation swords all have plastic handles. It's not the material that I'd be concerned about in this price range so much as the construction methods.
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David Sutton




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PostPosted: Wed 25 Jul, 2007 10:42 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I bought this sword about two weeks ago and I have to say I'm very impressed with it. I'm not normally a fan of complex hilts or rapier type swords, but something about this sword appealed to me. Maybe its the broader blade combined with the complex hilt, I don't know. Anyway I was pleasantly surprised at how well balanced it was and how fast too, it's probably the quickest blade in my collection. The fit and finnish, as has been said already, is very well executed for a sword in its price range and I would never have guessed that the grip was plastic the wire wrap is very nice and comfortable on an ungloved hand.

Two things occur to me about cheaper swords. The first is that they are much more of a gamble than Albions or any other high end producer. Some give a very good 'bang for your buck' but others aren't worth the shipping cost! In the end you take your chances.

The second is that, for me this sword has been great, not only have I got a fine sword but I've been able to dip my toe in a different area of sword history and design without shelling out a fortune for something which I might find I'm not too keen on later.

Now seeing as I'm in the market for something different, the Hanwei/Paul Chen Cromwell swords looks very nice...and I'm still supposed to be saving up for an Albion Yeoman! So many swords not enough time or cash!!!! Laughing Out Loud

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Mike Harris




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PostPosted: Thu 26 Jul, 2007 10:01 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Since Grayson originally posted a link to my photos and review on SBG, I thought I should chime in with a little clarifying information not included there.

The grip is indeed made of a polycarbonate material. It seems pretty stiff and stable as polycarbonate goes, though it is relatively thin and the whole thing is hollow

The two factors that allowed the grip shift were:

    - a bend in the threaded rod at the point of exit from the pommel, resulting from the rod being a bit soft near the weld
    - the fact that the opening at the rear of the grip is the same as the opening at the front of the tang, though the tang tapers to a significant degree
Thus when the grip is placed on the tang it exhibits a severe case of "tail wagging" until the pommel is snugged up.

I have played around with the idea of filling the grip with accra-glass, covering the tang with release agent, and reassembling it to allow the grip to form a solidly molded piece with the tang. It can then be disassembled and fully reassembled into the original sword configuration. However, the likely result will be a sword with a negative PoB since it's so close already. Suggestions on how to proceed would be welcomed and appreciated. Happy

Regarding cutting with this sword: Others are welcome to disagree, but it's advertised and appears to be a cut-and-thrust sword. To my historical mind that means a sword that is intended for both cutting and thrusting attacks. Such a sword should be expected to make cuts through light and medium weight leather outer garments like a light jerkin, and inflict reasonable damage to the flesh underneath. To me, such a sword should not have difficulty cutting plastic soda and Gatorade bottles. After being properly sharpened (it came with obvious areas where the edge wasn't finished) I have cut a few dozen of those. But the cutting ability just doesn't seem to suite me for a sword that is intended to be roughly 40% cut-oriented.

In summary, I've been reasonably happy with this sword, not withstanding the problems with the grip. I just think it needs a little more blade presence to be more effective at its intended role. I think it handles much more like a smallsword than as a true cut-and-thrust sidesword.
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Alen L




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PostPosted: Fri 06 Aug, 2010 3:27 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I am sorry to be reviving such an old thread, but i thought it better than opening a new one. I'm posting my own experience with a Hanwei practical sidesword (again, practical - the blunt version). We bought 4, so we'd have 2 pairs to work with. 2 of them are without trouble. One of them had the complex hilt bent and cracked, which was mended. The last one, however, is a bit more problematic. During the training, the pommel simply flew off of the sword, leaving the blade unsecured, so that that, too almost flew off. When we tried reassembling the sword, the weirdest thing happened. The pommel would go up and down the screw with minimal resistance, without it even being screwed on or off. I am yet to find out what the hell caused this, and it sure as hell made me certaing never to buy Hanwei again. The sword will shortly be shipped to the seller, and hopefully, the situation will be made right.

Bear in mind, this happened after only a couple of swings, on the first occassion it was used and against the same sword.

The second thing is the comparison between the practical and the sharp version (i have had the opportunity to handle the sharp one, as well). They are FAR from being even similar. The practical version is longer and heavier (which is to be expected, but the difference in weight is still incredible) and the handling is completely different....

Oh, also, the practical version has a wooden grip (though the one on the sidesword with the crappy pommel was cracked), not plastic.
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Isaac H.




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PostPosted: Sat 28 Aug, 2010 11:28 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Dan P. wrote "All my training and practice has been with smaller ,shorter,and lighter weapons compared to the side sword".....
Shorter than the side sword?
My freind owns a Hanwei side sword and that thing is super short!!! (at least as far as thrusting weapons go)
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Colt Reeves





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PostPosted: Sat 28 Aug, 2010 11:56 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Alen L wrote:
Quote:
The last one, however, is a bit more problematic. During the training, the pommel simply flew off of the sword, leaving the blade unsecured, so that that, too almost flew off. When we tried reassembling the sword, the weirdest thing happened. The pommel would go up and down the screw with minimal resistance, without it even being screwed on or off.


Threads were stripped? (I assume they would know better than to use too big a nut or something so stupid.) That sounds odd.

Brings to mind something I've been wondering about the threaded portions on many swords these days: How do they treat those? My experiences have been with a wallhanger which was way too soft and seemed to have been stripped when it was originally put together and my latest Hanwei rapier, which thankfully seems to be far better made.

What I mean is: Does the typical heat-treatment make for a good thread or do they have to treat it differently? I know the Tinker Pearce line has different hardness in the hilt as compared to the blade, but that doesn't mean it really has to be that way or that heat treating the whole thing to the same level is bad.
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Matthew Stagmer
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PostPosted: Sun 29 Aug, 2010 12:04 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Colt Reeves wrote:
Alen L wrote:
Quote:
The last one, however, is a bit more problematic. During the training, the pommel simply flew off of the sword, leaving the blade unsecured, so that that, too almost flew off. When we tried reassembling the sword, the weirdest thing happened. The pommel would go up and down the screw with minimal resistance, without it even being screwed on or off.


Threads were stripped? (I assume they would know better than to use too big a nut or something so stupid.) That sounds odd.

Brings to mind something I've been wondering about the threaded portions on many swords these days: How do they treat those? My experiences have been with a wallhanger which was way too soft and seemed to have been stripped when it was originally put together and my latest Hanwei rapier, which thankfully seems to be far better made.

What I mean is: Does the typical heat-treatment make for a good thread or do they have to treat it differently? I know the Tinker Pearce line has different hardness in the hilt as compared to the blade, but that doesn't mean it really has to be that way or that heat treating the whole thing to the same level is bad.


Colt it is far too hard to just make a blanket statement about hardness. Each material calls for different methods and each method then produces variables that come in to play. You can talk to 10 different makers of quality swords and each may tell you a different material and HT process. The important part is that you have a tough blade. Not so much how hard it is but that it is durable for the intended use.

It does seem like a no brainer that you would want to make your threaded section out of a steel that will hold the threads but I have seen more time then not that they are just mild steel.

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Colt Reeves





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PostPosted: Sun 29 Aug, 2010 12:47 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Kind of surprises me that I haven't seen any threads or complaints from people trying to over-tighten and stripping their threaded pieces. Of course, most of my experience with that sort of thing is when I'm attacking things with a wrench, something I hope most people don't do to their swords. It's a wee bit more expensive to replace an entire sword blade than it is to fish another bolt out of the odds & ends box. Big Grin
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PostPosted: Sun 29 Aug, 2010 10:45 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Colt Reeves wrote:
Kind of surprises me that I haven't seen any threads or complaints from people trying to over-tighten and stripping their threaded pieces. Of course, most of my experience with that sort of thing is when I'm attacking things with a wrench, something I hope most people don't do to their swords. It's a wee bit more expensive to replace an entire sword blade than it is to fish another bolt out of the odds & ends box. Big Grin


Yeah, not too much of a problem if one is just using a hex key with moderate pressure but if one is using a torque wrench with lots of mechanical advantage I could see one stripping treads if one puts all of one's muscles into it: Better a light touch and a drop of loctite. Wink Laughing Out Loud

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