[Stephen Hand]

Interesting stuff. I have a buff coat that's made of very soft, very supple 8mm thick leather (this is a historically correct thickness). These were accounted to provide good protection against most sword cuts.

This does fairly graphically show why people used metal armour where they could get their hands on it. Buff coats were used after metal armour was largely discarded as being useless against firearms. I have at least one account of a buff coat stopping a musket ball, though it was at long range and the chap (the French general the Conde) had a neck to knee bruise that laid him up for a week.

Cheers
Stephen

[Stephen Hand]

oh, and while I'm thinking about it, measuring leather in ounces, even for those of us old enough to remember what an ounce is, is meaningless to anyone outside America. Thicknesses are clear to anyone, but I don't have a clue what 6Oz, 10Oz leather actually means.

Why does America cling to Imperial measurements?

Oh, and I realised, my buff coat is shown in my avatar pic

Cheers
Stephen

[Glen A Cleeton]

If I am not mistaken, leather weight is by the square foot.

Why are bearings always measured in inches and spark plug threads always metric?

Cheers

GC

[Allan Senefelder]

[Steven H]

[Jared Smith]

The convention for most leather offered in the U.S. is that leather weight in oz will correspond approximately to 1/64" (0.39 mm) thickness per "oz weight."

A 16 oz grade of vegetable tanned leather will be close to 1/4" thick (6mm.) This is what is recommended by many today for boiling to make cuir bullii and hardened armour pieces (typically called sole bends as being adequate for bottoms or shoes/boots or hardened armour.)

I am not saying that it has to be this thick (or that it definitely was historically) so much as I am stating that it is what is consistently recommended today for safety and durability. It will not be cut through like butter, but can still be cut. It is not as tough as "vandal resistant" polypropylene plastics used to form rugged mail boxes and garbage cans. I have cut and thrust through 3/16" (4.75 mm) polypropylene plastics EASILY when I embarrassed myself in text cutting (missing targets and penetrating garbage can used as support prop) with both my Albion Knight and Munich swords.

This won't really change any of the conclusions already reached in the thread. It does make a difference in my opinion, in that I don't think someone will easily cut through the hardened form of leather unless they are deliberately drawing or slicing with the cut as part of their technique. I demonstrate this now to people by letting them push hard against "formed leather" (cell phone holsters, other scraps left over when I make something for them and throw some into boiling water) with a new razor blade or "Exacto" knife. Hardened leather does not cut well (hardly at all) simply by pushing a sharp knife with brute force. Given a little slicing or sawing action with a sharp edge, hardened leather can be cut surprisingly easily.

[Björn Kronisch]

Now we've continued our tests, this time also with hardened leather. The results were of course different and these leather pieces could take much more punishment than the soft ones.
The tests clearly showed that (especially hardened) leather is able to protect from cuts but not from stabs. An axe is quite effective against hardened leather too but then again I guess it's effective against almost any type of armour. The pure impact force of an axe blow can be enough to seriously injure an opponent. Of course a gambeson underneath the leather armour would help though I cannot say how great the difference would be.

We also wanted to test the protection against projectiles but the only thing available was an atlatl. The dart (or throwing spear, whatever you like) has an iron tip. It was really interesting that it didn't completely penetrate the leather, instead it drove the whole lamellar that it hit into the styrofoam target. By the way, the atlatl is selfmade and not professional, same with the dart.

Well, enough talk for now... just have a look:

Part1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIWiqF9CjgY

Part2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jpuSzgkZN4

Part3:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7L_EmI6V0S8

Part4:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLGwNY3xMjM

[Stephen Hand]

[Björn Kronisch]

8mm thick leather... I wonder how much protection this would offer if hardened. Well, maybe the same as with the thinner leather... good against cuts but minimal resistance against thrusts.

Has anyone ever tested the resistance of chain maille against thrusts?

[Michal Plezia]

Great tests.Thanks for sharing.Any chance for more tests?

[Jean Thibodeau]

[Gary A. Chelette]

[Björn Kronisch]

[Etienne Hamel]

did you ever test boiled leather but in the lamellar form?

[Björn Kronisch]

No, I didn't. I have not figured out yet how I can best deal with the problem of shrinking. If I just put the finished lamellars in boiling water they will shrivel so I cannot use them anymore.

[Etienne Hamel]

you can't just put it in water individually and make the ''big thing'' later?

[Björn Kronisch]

This is what I meant, if I put every single lamellar in boiling water it shrinks unpredictably.

[Michal Plezia]

I've heard that some people boil leather in linseed oil to make it hard...any ideas about that?

[Felix Wang]

[Jean Thibodeau]