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Reinier van Noort
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 Posted: Mon 18 Jun, 2007 1:59 am Post subject: |
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Hi Randall,
That picture is great indeed. I think I'll steal it as an avatar on some forums I visit. Could you tell me where it is from?
Thanks
R
School voor Historische Schermkunsten
www.bruchius.com
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Randall Moffett
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| Posted: Mon 18 Jun, 2007 2:40 am Post subject: |
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If you go to the British Library online then go to catalogues then manuscripts then illustrated manuscripts online or something like that you can find many of the illustrations are there. This is from the Taymouth Hours circa 1325- BL ID Yates Thompson MS 13. It is Folio 12.
RPM
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Reinier van Noort
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| Posted: Mon 18 Jun, 2007 2:56 am Post subject: |
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Great, thanks! 
School voor Historische Schermkunsten
www.bruchius.com
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Nathan Keysor
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| Posted: Mon 18 Jun, 2007 6:54 am Post subject: |
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While on the subject of interesting bascinets... Here is a picture of one I find fascinating. If you imagine it without the visor it looks very similar to those worn in the effigies of knights from 1400-1410 where the mail aventail has been discarded in favor of a plate defense.
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"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner.
Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!"
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Jean Thibodeau
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| Posted: Mon 18 Jun, 2007 7:35 am Post subject: |
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| Nathan Keysor wrote: | | While on the subject of interesting bascinets... Here is a picture of one I find fascinating. If you imagine it without the visor it looks very similar to those worn in the effigies of knights from 1400-1410 where the mail aventail has been discarded in favor of a plate defense. |
Looks interesting.  I wonder about use though from a practical point of view as there are no breath holes ? So, for jousting this would be a plus and I think a jousting helm can get away with this as the visor would be closed for only a few minutes at a time.
On a battlefield one would have to open the visor often for air or at least to cool down a bit, and to get a better view of what was going on around i.e. situational awareness.
The open visor does present a target opportunity for archers though, so a visor that one can endure closed for longer periods of time seems more suited to battle to me.
But this one does look like the effigy ones though that replaced the maille aventail.
Oh, one thought though is that a bascinet with a removable visor could have a second visor giving less protection but better vision and ventilation.
You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Nathan Keysor
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| Posted: Mon 18 Jun, 2007 1:51 pm Post subject: |
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Yes it is definitely a very transitional piece. It looks like it may have originally had a centrally attached visor that was later upgraded to a side pivot. If I recall there is historical precedent for that sort of mod. Especially if they were anything like most of us and could never leave well enough alone
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner.
Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!"
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Doug Strong
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| Posted: Tue 18 Mar, 2008 9:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Nathan Keysor wrote: | | Yes it is definitely a very transitional piece. It looks like it may have originally had a centrally attached visor that was later upgraded to a side pivot. If I recall there is historical precedent for that sort of mod. Especially if they were anything like most of us and could never leave well enough alone |
That helmet is part of a large group of similar helmets from the Venetian fortress at Chalcis. There are loads of them about in museums and private collections. I have cataloged about 40 of them so far. Essentially they exist in three forms.
1. Italian bascinets with sweeping backs and high points. They typically have hooks for centrally mounted visors.
2. Things like that that were made by taking one of the above helmets and cutting off the lower sections. The new "great bascinet like" parts were added along with the little round visors.
3. Corinthian style barbutes that were made by taking one of #1 and cutting off the lower sections. A new lower part was riveted in place and then ocularia were alter to give them that Corinthian look.
The two largest assembrages of these are in the Met in NY and in the Historical Museum at Athens.
Dr. Douglas W. Strong
http://talbotsfineaccessories.com/
http://armourresearchsociety.org
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This is a standard topic