I was wondering, was it common in 15th century to have a smaller pavice in one hand and a hand-and-half sword in the other? I think I've seen it somewhere? Do you have any pictures depicting this?

In case it's ok, where do you buy pavices?

As far as I know, "pavise" usually refers to the large shields used by archers and crossbowmen as portable cover. These were propped up or held by a second guy, and would entirely cover a man kneeling down to reload or take aim.

I agree with Mikko. You must be referring to a "buckler" or "targe", because these were small one-handed shields that could be used in conjunction with a sword.

Ok, I found this. Is this not a pavise?

http://pics.myArmoury.com/view.html?pavise01b.jpg

There are two different concepts of a pavise:

1) The large shields that were stuck in the ground or otherwise held up. These normally had a prominent keel on the center line.

2) Any size of shield with a keel like the above definition. This category includes shields used by the Rus in the 15th century, as well as the shields you found a picture of.

So if you use definition two then the answer to your question is clearly yes.
I do not know of any work on techniques that may be specific to that type of shield.

-Steven

going along with what steven just mentioned in the medievalperiod text the original terms used for pavaise do include smaller shields that are hand held. They also include larger ones that you can hide behind. Terminology is fairly fluid in the period depending on the writer and region in question. There are a few 15th century illustrations that show men with full armour fighting with them and a sword so I'd say you're good to go.

RPM

I stand corrected! Oh well, learning is always fun. :)

This raises the question, would this smaller kind of pavise have a center grip behind the "keel" like a buckler, or grips and straps like a heater?

Hi!
About the grips, here is a picture from Hans Burgkmair:
http://search.famsf.org:8080/view.shtml?keywo...cord=56029

Thanks!

Hmm, so based on that picture the answer would be "either", a lot like early teardrop shields. Interesting.

No guiges, though, I note...

I think it is more a modern use of the term that gives the impression that only the larger ones are called pavaises so. Not wrong as much as familar with current work on the matter. There is no harm in using it so as long as one has a term to define the other smaller types. I have seen Target used to represent them but then you have a huge grey area of the ones inbetween door size and pocket size.

In some of the hussite artwork from Osprey's Hussite book show both types being employed. Both are show used by misslemen and the smaller used in melee fighting as well.

There are a few accounts that mention pavaises used at agincourt by the main body of men at arms. More than likely the smaller mobile ones but the passage indicates use agaist arrows. I often wondered if it would be discarded or places on a guige strap at the back once the man at arms engaged or used in the hand to hand fighting. Sadly we might never know but I have a feeling it was for both missiles and melee but perhaps in only certain situations.

RPM

What was the very tall dueling shield from the 15th - 16th century? (Might be off on the dates) I've seen drawings; apparently two people had one each and they fenced around it somehow.

M.

Check out some of the pictures on page 4 of this thread:
http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=2711&start=60

Especially this one:
[ Linked Image ]

Hmm. Again, it seems one is center-gripped and one strapped to the arm, and neither has guige straps (unless the artist just left them out). Makes me wonder if they actually used a grip configuration that would allow both kinds of gripping, again somewhat like some early teardrops or late round Viking shields...

On the absence of guige straps: It's been my observation that Medieval artists frequently left out guige straps. I've seen paintings where the one assumes there is a guige because no other means of holding up the shield is apparent.

I suspect the same is true of helmet straps. :D

The German duelling shields of the 15th century are very pavise like. They're shown being used with longswords. The fight is principally about maneuvering with the shield, with the sword held back to exploit gaps, so a longsword is quite wieldy in this circumstance. For an analysis of the style, please see my paper in Spada and the follow up in Spada II.

Cheers
Stephen

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That's exactly what I was looking for, thanks.

M.

Many books refer to the hand pavise, such as the following example of Matthias Corvinus, King of Hungary (1443-90; King, 1458)

[ Linked Image ]

Also check out this woodcut:

[ Linked Image ]

Nice! Looks something I could get. So...do you know where to get it?! :D