scale pauldrons
i want to make a set of scaled pauldrons. i have access to everything for the production of them but lack a good pattern. since they must support their own weight i need a pattern that will keep enough tension to keep them straight. i have found a few patterns for plate pauldrons but i can't see a way to adapt them for scales.

the scales i want to use are about 1/2" wide and 3/4" long and diamond shaped
From the nature of the question you asked I suspect that you are confusing scale and lamellar construction. Scale is sewn to a backing and shouldn't need, "enough tension to keep them straight", since each scale is individually sewn on and the backing keeps everything together and organized properly. If you are indeed asking about scale then please elaborate as I do not understand the problem.

I am not aware of any historical example of scale pauldrons, only sleeves on coats. I do know that several eastern cultures used lamellar pauldrons (as opposed to sleeves) such as the Rus as show in the Osprey book, Medieval Russian Armies 1250-1500, and Japanese samurai armours. These examples are essentially curved boards that tie onto the harness. Rather simple.
i will be using scales that are made to be "self-structural" in that they only connect to ech other with no need for backing.
here is a front view
http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u231/chaos...-sizes.jpg

and here is a back view of how they connect
http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u231/chaos...leback.jpg

they are made to be joined with split rings or jump rings.

basically all i need are a few good patterns to make my own from to get a good feel for how they fit
hmmmm,

The Ringlords scales are not an historical design. They are the wrong shape and hole pattern. And again, scale pauldrons are not historical. That makes finding a pattern difficult. The Ringlord may be able to help better, than anyone here.

Is there a particular reason you're doing only pauldrons?
Wouldn't a backing make the item more comfortable anyways? (scales and rings on skin sounds bad)
Jonathon G wrote:
i will be using scales that are made to be "self-structural" in that they only connect to ech other with no need for backing.
here is a front view
http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u231/chaos...-sizes.jpg

and here is a back view of how they connect
http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u231/chaos...leback.jpg

they are made to be joined with split rings or jump rings.

basically all i need are a few good patterns to make my own from to get a good feel for how they fit


That is actually a variation on maille armor. 4-in-1, with the scale "aka fishing lure part" acting as the center ring. I think about the only way to actually make a "pauldron" from this would be to attach it to a stiff (leather) backing. Otherwise it is just going to flap around like a flat sheet of mail. Sleeves might indeed be a much better, more attractive option.
The stuff does look pretty when assembled, though, and ought to offer a decent level of protection. Very "elven", imo.
It looks like a variation on the Roman Lorica Squamata and I don't know that you're going to be able to make more than a panel that hangs off the shoulder in a manner similar to lamellar. The example shown in Armour of Imperial Rome that has been reconstructed from pieces found near Lake Trasimene has a single large plate on each shoulder after the manner of one of the Wisby coats of plates rather than a shoulder defense constructed from scales as the rest of the garment is. There are sculptural represenations of squamata on page 158 that appear to show separate panels of scale over the shoulders ( although they do not go down the arm) but the panles in both representations are bordered which leads me to believ they're attached to some sort of at least semi rigid backing like leather to stiffen the scale "fabric".
Lorica Plummata i think

i am only making pauldrons for now but might make more. I am making a Maille vest now and most likely won't add sleeves to it so i will need something to cover my shoulders and upper arms. i do realise that this isn't historically accurate but i can't for the life of my find anything.

also i will be wearing everything with some type of clothing or padding under it so comfort on skin is not really an issue.
i am also considering backing to scales with a dense euro 4 in 1 weave that will hold it's shape.
Jonathon G wrote:
Lorica Plummata i think

i am only making pauldrons for now but might make more. I am making a Maille vest now and most likely won't add sleeves to it so i will need something to cover my shoulders and upper arms. i do realise that this isn't historically accurate but i can't for the life of my find anything.

also i will be wearing everything with some type of clothing or padding under it so comfort on skin is not really an issue.
i am also considering backing to scales with a dense euro 4 in 1 weave that will hold it's shape.


How about a mantle of the plummata over the mail vest?
Jonathon G wrote:

i am only making pauldrons for now but might make more. I am making a Maille vest now and most likely won't add sleeves to it so i will need something to cover my shoulders and upper arms. i do realise that this isn't historically accurate but i can't for the life of my find anything.


Even short sleeves would be historical. Romans wore such an item and as did Scandinavians who called it a byrnie. Plus they'd take care of one of the real reasons for wearing pauldrons. Protecting your armpits.

Jonathon G wrote:

also i will be wearing everything with some type of clothing or padding under it so comfort on skin is not really an issue.
i am also considering backing to scales with a dense euro 4 in 1 weave that will hold it's shape.

I'm not sure that this will produce the effect of holding its shape. Leather would do that much better.


Last edited by Steven H on Fri 18 May, 2007 2:08 pm; edited 1 time in total
Quote:
Lorica Plummata i think




According to Robinson squamata is armour made from scales joined to each other either with cord or rings, I think and I may be incorrect that plummata is where scales are attached to a maille shirt using rings, the posted photos show the scales joined to each other with rings to form the garment so I was thinking squamata based on Robinson. Maybe some one with more knowledge than me can clarify. Either way there are some scuptural depictions in Armour of Imperial Rome of squamata with short sleeves, theres nothing represented that could really be considered a pauldron, just more a reinforcing panel similar in shape to those for sometimes seen on hamata on the tops of the shoulders. I didn't see anything in Connoley's Greece and Rome at War either so i'm not really sure how you'd go about it.
Scale paudrons on a maille shirt will look fairly "off", in my opinion. The other way around would look fine, however.

I'd go for the scale mantle, honestly. While TRL's scales are not historical, they are nice looking and they are steel, so should be somewhat protective.

Are you planning to do any fighting in what you're making?

M.
no i won't actually beusing them for combat, but would like to maintain the same physical characteristics as if I was. I might fust go with a different weave of mail instead of scales, but i have not decided yet(i am still making the shirt)
You could also get plate spaulders. Those are fairly easy to come by and can be as cheap as 80USD.

Here is a pair over at Merc's Tailor: http://www.merctailor.com/catalog/product_inf...86da8c489a

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M.
M. Eversberg II wrote:
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