[Sean Flynt]

Does anybody know of a good reference more up-to-date than Albaugh? Specifically, I'm looking for information on the Leech & Rigdon (aka Memphis Novelty Works) Staff & Field Officer's sword (the one with "CS" cast in open bars of hilt). I'd like to know when L&R made these swords, where they might have seen service, historic photos, photos of antiques, etc.
Here's a photo of a reproduction of this weapon (I just won the sword, knot and belt for $150 on Ebay!). I've tentatively ID'd it as being in the style of the L&R/MNW swords based on an encyclopdia of civil war gear. Does anybody have an alternate ID?


Thanks!

[Hugh Fuller]

I'm not certain how to say this politely, but I have very serious doubts if you'll find a better study of Confederate swords and sabers that that done by Bill Albaugh, no matter how much newer. AFAIK, his has long been the definitive work in that area.

[Sean Flynt]

Agreed. It's fantastic, and I'd love to own a copy of it and the photographic companion. In fact, the only reason I sought a newer source is because Albaugh didn't positively identify a maker for this particular weapon, tentatively attributing it to James Conning. I'd seen it identified later as Leech & Rigdon (Memphis Novelty Works)) and wondered if somebody discovered something after Albaugh's book that pointed toward L&R. I subsequently found a site that had a very complete history of L&R. The history asserted that some "floating CS" swords marked "Leech & Rigdon" turned up in the 1960s, and that this proved that L&R is responsible for this style. It ain't necessarily so, of course. Assuming those weapons were genuine and genuinely marked, some other contemporary manufacturer could have copied the style, just as L&R could have copied the style from another contemporary maker. Sounds like this style is MOST LIKELY L&R, though.
By the way, the Jarnigan sword belt and fine quality officer's knot are very nice (though the knot terminal has separated from the gold lace strap --easily repaired) but the sword is disappointing. Casting isn't crisp and the hilt is loose. Grip seems a bit too large and wrap isn't leather. Wire should have more turns and terminate under cap. Hole in cap for knucklebow terminus is slightly off-center. Some elements of the blade etching are indistinct/cheap looking. Scabbard is well done. Blade is strong and flexible, apparently well-tempered.
This will be a project sword. I'll tighten the hilt, antique the steel and brass and probably replace wrap and wire.Might even try to sharpen up the casting or add some details to the hilt. Given the value of the other stuff, I figure I paid about $50 for a sword that seems to be in the middle range of civil war sword replicas. Not bad, but I'm still left wondering who makes the best repros. Any opinion on that?
Let the peening begin!

[Joe Fults]

I'd also like to see opinion on civil war repros. My brother would love to have one but I've never really know what vendors to tell him were know to make a good product.

[Sean Flynt]

This guy offers the best looking repros I've seen.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem...gory=36042

There was a post on this forum several months ago about a Kenansville repro that I think was sold by this guy. Search the forum for "Froelich" and you'll find that post.

The casting detail, grip and etching of the weapon featured in the above link look outstanding. Seller has several confederate swords currently up on Ebay--this Boyle & Gamble, another, more expensive one, and another Kenansville.
I'm actually starting to warm up my cheaper repro. The antiquing helps, and I'm going to get after it with a ball peen hammer this weekend.

[Ben Sweet]

I bought the reproduction Froelich awhile back from the link of the ebay seller you posted (excellent deal with him!) I dont have any pics anymore since installing XP so I could run my Photoshop CS...got cleaned out...I'll have some new ones up later

[Richard Chapman]

I've bought some stuff from this guy also. He's a reliable seller, and his merchandise
is high quality. It looks to me like many of his swords can also be had from

http://www.legendaryarms.com

including the Froelich sword. Of course, if you are interested in Union rather than Confederate
Civil war era swords, the real thing can be had for reasonable dollars. My guess
is that there is both more supply and less demand (2/3 of Civil War re enactors
want to wear gray for some reason). I have an Ames 1862 sword I bought from Ames;
in a previous post I said it looked about like other reproductions in roughly
the same price range. Now that I've seen more, let me say that the Ames sword
is on a par with the _best_ you'll every find of those reproductions -- the Ames
quality control and consistency are better than the overseas makers, even if they do use
imported blades.

Here are examples of two Union blades I got on ebay recently for not much.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem...2217710554

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem...2218140625

If anyone can shed any light on the "K&c/iron proof" makers mark on the first one, I'd appreciate it.
I can't find that mark in Peterson, Rezdek, or Albaugh. If it is a reproduction,
I won't be much upset. The "iron proof" mark and the outline of dots are typically found on Solingen import
sabers, but the "K&c" would indicate an English speaking origin, since the "&c" probably means "and company". Sometimes the wholesaler would mark them also, but the only one starting with a K that I know of is Kittridge, and
that company used a different mark.

I'd like to get Tom Nardi to rewrap the grip on the K&c, and mount the Ames altogether.
Has anyone used his services (http://www.cds1.net/~nardi/swords/)? He offered to when
I won the auctions, but hasn't responded to email lately.

Yours,
Richard

[Sean Flynt]

Seems to me that the most satisfying approach is to buy these repros as you would buy MRL repros--assuming that they will be fundamentally sound and approximately accurate in design, weight, etc. but in need of some DIY touches to make them true bargains. The Ames may be the exception.

[Sean Flynt]

If you haven't already found it, you must check out this site:

http://www.garyhendershott.com

Once you get to the main page, use the search function to search for "sword". You'll get 176 items, mostly Confed. & Fed swords and sabers. Fantastic reference, especially if you want to antique a replica. Ignore this note if you're among the legion of schmucks forging CW swords. Look at the prices and you'll see why so many folks are selling homemade "antiques". Yikes! And people think MEDIEVAL swords are expensive? As has already been mentioned, confed. swords are astronomical--typically in the 30-40K range for a good piece, much more for unique ones. Fed items dramatically cheaper but still as much as good Brit/Continental swords of the 16th/17th c.

[Richard Chapman]

Argh! I think I've found who made the K&c blade I asked about in a previous
post, but my book is missing the pages I need! Today my copy of "Civil War Cavalry
and Artillery Sabers" by Thillman arrived, and I found some similar marks on Swords sold
by Horstmann (a dealer, not a maker) which had blades marked K&c. The blades were
made by C. Kirschbaum in Solingen, ("Kirschbaum & Cie" and "C.K." were other Kirschbaum
marks) which would explain the "Iron Proof" mark on the other side of the ricasso. But, the pages
on Kirschbaum are missing from the book! Does anyone have a copy of Thillman
who could look at pp. 249-252 and tell me? I guess I'll be sending this book back
to Amazon for a refund...

Kirschbaum is still around as part of WKC (www.solingen-swords.com). They make
German and USA military pattern parade swords today.

Now I am intrigued, since there are no USA inspectors marks on the blade. Could it be
Confederate?

Yours,
Richard

[Sean Flynt]

"Could it be Confederate?"

Don't even think it! You'd have to get it insured and lock it in a safe!

[Richard Chapman]

I think I can answer this part of my question myself also. The answer is "No." Imported
pattern 1840 cavalry sabers were not marked by US inspectors, only USA manufactured
blades were so marked, by inspectors stationed at the point of manufacture. I still want to
read pp. 249-252 of Thillman, though!

[John Piscopo]

Dear Friends,

I would like to recommend Richard "Dick" Bezdek's two volumes of American Swords and Swordmakers. You can purchase them from my friend of many years by calling him at (847)297-3817 or emailling him at TheSwordman@yahoo.com Please call him in the evening or on a weekend, he has a day job.

Dick has also written books on the Swords and Swordmakers of the War of 1812, Swords and Swordmakers of England and Scotland and German Swords and Swordmakers. He will also do identifications and authentications for a modest fee.

He lives in suburban Chicago, as do I, and I see him regularly at local shows.

I have the Thillman book. What you are looking for is a chapter on C.R. Kirschbaum, sword manufacturer in Solingen. This chapter briefly discusses swords and blades made for export to the US and British markets, the US M1840 Cavalry Saber (Old Wristbreaker) and the British M1853 Cavalry Saber that saw service during the Crimean War and was found to be grossly inadequate and soon replaced. I have both of these swords in my collection but neither was manufactured by Kirschbaum. I can photocopy for you if you are interested.

I have two books on Weyersberg Kirschbaum & Cie., one on patterns made for the German market and one on patterns made for export to the South American market, if anyone is interested I can provide more detailed information. Keep in mind that that firm had many names during the 19th Century due to mergers and acquisitions and the markings also changed over the years. I own many German swords from different German States manufactured by this firm.

A warning to all who are interested in Civil War swords: Joe Walters of the House of Swords in Kansas City, MO, now defunct since the 1980s sold thousands of modern made Confederate and Union swords through his catalog to unsuspecting buyers. These swords are now frequently offered in online auctions such as eBay and go for fabulous prices. I would suggest that you go by my axiom, repeated many times to fellow collectors: All Confederate swords are fakes. The Confederates never used swords of any kind. I am wrong 20% of the time. Would you fly as a passenger on an airplane model that crashed 20% of the time?

I have one genuine European made Confederate sword, a Pallasch, that was once owned by Dick Bezdek. It is completely unmarked.

[Richard Chapman]

Dear John:
I echo your recommendation of Bezdek's books -- I own them, and looked for my sword in them, as mentioned
in my previous post (misspelled his name, sorry).
I appreciate the offer to photocopy the 3 pages on Kirschbaum that I need; I have already returned
the defective book and ordered a new copy of Thillman. If it is missing the pages also, I'll send you
a private mesasge and take you up on your offer.

Regarding your warning about Joe Walters: what can one do, in a practical sense, to tell the difference between
one of his forgeries and an authentic sword?

Yours,
Richard

[John Piscopo]

Regarding your warning about Joe Walters: what can one do, in a practical sense, to tell the difference between
one of his forgeries and an authentic sword?

Dear Richard,

I am afraid that purchasing Civil War swords is a Buyer's Beware exercise on eBay and other auctions. I know several collectors and dealers here in the Chicago Area, Dick Bezdek, Jan Zajac, Fred Coluzzi to nam a few who can readily tell the differences between the modern repros and the genuine antiques but as I said earlier, the fakes number in the thousands and tens of thousands and outnumber the genuine ones.

Be aware that a common trick is to purchase a nice French M1845 Infantry Officer Sword, file the markings off and market it as a US Field and Staff Officer Civil War Sword. It is virtually impossible to tell the difference unless you have genuine examples of both side by side to compare with t he one for sale. The French sword will cost $400. +/- while the US sword will cost $1,500. to $2,000. with both swords in equal condition.

Most of the engraved presentation swords on the market have fake inscriptions on genuine swords. If you buy from other than a reputable dealer you are asking to be defrauded.

[Sean Flynt]

Folks following this thread should view the new thread showing photos of my antiquing experiments with a replica confederate staff and field officer's sword:

http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=1075