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Matthew Stagmer
Industry Professional
Location: Maryland, USA Joined: 23 Jan 2008
Posts: 493
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 Posted: Wed 11 Aug, 2010 7:25 am Post subject: |
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| Julien M wrote: | Hi Guys,
Another likely candidate: late german hilt type, combined with a type XVIII hollow ground blade.
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Wow, look at that close up of the steel. It looks like wrought. Thanks for sharing. You can still see some signs of inlay on the blade.
Is it likely that hilts like this had their rings added on later? The form makes the rings look like afterthoughts.
Matthew Stagmer
Maker of custom and production weaponry
Youtube.com/ThatWorks
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Dave Leppo
Location: Dover, PA, USA Joined: 24 Feb 2010
Posts: 38
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| Posted: Thu 19 Aug, 2010 11:59 am Post subject: |
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Incidentally, this is as far as I’ve gotten with my interpretation. The cross is forged from twisted pattern-welded material, though you can't see that w/o polish and etch, and I also have a pommel of similar material (probably to light after turning on the lathe). The ring guards are just 8mm round steel. The rings are close to being duplicates side to side (not mirrored, or symmetrical). The tang needs to grow longer, and I need to continue grinding the blade to remove at least 10% more mass.
It’s been way to hot to forge lately, so no recent progress. I just had the camera out last night, documenting the sword find from the ancient Aluminum culture, so I threw this on the cabinet and took a shot of it.
Sorry, as usual, for the hijack.
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-Dave
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Matthew Stagmer
Industry Professional
Location: Maryland, USA Joined: 23 Jan 2008
Posts: 493
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| Posted: Thu 19 Aug, 2010 12:21 pm Post subject: |
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Cool. All pwelded. Should be superb by the time your done!
Matthew Stagmer
Maker of custom and production weaponry
Youtube.com/ThatWorks
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Mark T
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| Posted: Fri 03 Dec, 2010 1:26 am Post subject: |
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This one has been posted many times at myA, but not in this thread yet, so here it is for completeness:
| Arms & Armor wrote: | | Circa 1500 German, provenance unknown, pictured in Arms and Armour, Blackmore, p.32 |
And discussed on the German Bastard Sword Original info sought thread.
Sounds like these three images are the only ones we're aware of as existing for this sword.
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From 'Arms and Armour' by Blackmore, p. 32
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Jeffrey Farnol with German bastard sword
Chief Librarian/Curator, Isaac Leibowitz Librarmoury
Schallern sind sehr sexy!
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Mark T
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| Posted: Fri 03 Dec, 2010 1:30 am Post subject: |
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Third image:
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From 'Wilkinson's All-Color Guide' [ Download ]
Chief Librarian/Curator, Isaac Leibowitz Librarmoury
Schallern sind sehr sexy!
Last edited by Mark T on Fri 03 Dec, 2010 3:06 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Connor Ruebusch
Location: Cincinnati Joined: 10 Nov 2009
Posts: 97
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| Posted: Fri 03 Dec, 2010 8:27 am Post subject: |
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| Mark T wrote: | | Third image: |
Wow, this is off-topic but I really like that single-edged blade just above the bastard sword in question in your image, there. The pommel makes me think messer, but the knuckle-ring makes me think more falchion. I can't tell if the grip is punched for rivets, so it really could be either. Anyway, just wanted to point that little beauty out.
Ex animo,
Connor
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Scott Woodruff
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| Posted: Wed 08 Dec, 2010 3:19 pm Post subject: |
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That is a sword of the so-called Wakefield type, providence- England around 1500. Check out the hammer-headed dagger thread for some pics of this example or one just like it.
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JG Elmslie
Industry Professional
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Scott Woodruff
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| Posted: Thu 09 Dec, 2010 10:29 am Post subject: |
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I love that guard! Historically, how were these complex hilts constructed? Were they always forge-welded or were they sometimes brazed or riveted? Some of the "animal-head terminal" side rings/loops seem like they might be attached by a intregal peg under the head riveted through the quillon. Does that sound like a reasonable construction method?
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Mark T
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| Posted: Fri 10 Dec, 2010 2:35 am Post subject: |
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| JG Elmslie wrote: |
just to throw another interesting one into the mix... |
Thanks, JG, this one is quite interesting ... won't stay on Christie's page forever, so let's capture it here for posterity.
| Christie's wrote: |
A GERMAN MILITARY HAND-AND-A-HALF BROADSWORD
CIRCA 1560-90
Price Realized
£3,750
($5,944)
Sale Information
Sale 5477
Antique Arms and Armour and Collectors Firearms
30 September 2010
London, South Kensington
Lot Description
A GERMAN MILITARY HAND-AND-A-HALF BROADSWORD
CIRCA 1560-90
With long double-edged spear-point blade of flattened hexagonal section struck on each side with a series of marks and letters within a narrow fuller, the fullers each decorated with punched and incised borders and struck with further marks on each side of the ricasso, iron hilt of flattened triangular bars comprising a pair of long straight quillons widening towards the tips and each with button finial, a pair of arms joined to the ring-guard by a pair of bars forming an inverted 'V', thumb-ring joined by slender bars to both the rear quillon and rear arm, faceted plummet-shaped pommel, and grip retaining its original leather covering
42¾ in (108.6cm) blade
Lot Notes
The hilt would appear to have been deliberately altered by the removal of the original half-basket guard, almost certainly within its working life
An example with a very similar blade bearing an identical series of marks is illustrated in Ewart Oakeshott, 'Bastard Swords', The Catalogue of The Seventh Park Lane Arm Fair, February 1990, No.6, pp. 15-16
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Image from http://www.christies.com/LotFinder/ZoomImage.aspx?image=/lotfinderimages/D53564/d5356483
Chief Librarian/Curator, Isaac Leibowitz Librarmoury
Schallern sind sehr sexy!
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Dave Leppo
Location: Dover, PA, USA Joined: 24 Feb 2010
Posts: 38
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| Posted: Fri 10 Dec, 2010 4:22 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Lot Notes
The hilt would appear to have been deliberately altered by the removal of the original half-basket guard, almost certainly within its working life |
This is interesting. I wonder what the "half basket guard" that was removed looked like, (as simple as a knuckle-bow?) and why was it removed. Perhaps it proved to be restrictive as handling technique changed/evolved?
Scott, based solely on my knowledge of non-weapons smithing, a delicate forge weld can be achieved by first pinning or riveting the elements together, then heating to a welding temperature and “massaging” the joint with the hammer, so that may be what we’re seeing on some of these joints. Other more seasoned makers are encouraged to correct me.
-Dave
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Nathan Robinson
myArmoury Admin
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| Posted: Mon 06 Jun, 2011 4:50 pm Post subject: |
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This doesn't look original to me but it's a nice design.
Images and text Copyright © Michael D. Long
Superb European hand-and-a-half sword with silver inlay
Overall length 48.5 inches and with a 40.25 inch broadsword blade, the ricasso engraved with foliate decoration, and has traces of gilding, the iron hilt is a work of art, with the pommel, quillon finials and center of the rings fashioned as artichokes.
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Copyright © Michael D. Long
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Copyright © Michael D. Long
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Copyright © Michael D. Long
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Copyright © Michael D. Long
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Copyright © Michael D. Long
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Copyright © Michael D. Long
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Copyright © Michael D. Long
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Copyright © Michael D. Long
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Copyright © Michael D. Long
.:. Visit my Collection Gallery :: View my Reading List :: View my Wish List :: See Pages I Like :: Find me on Facebook .:.
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Nathan Robinson
myArmoury Admin
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| Posted: Mon 06 Jun, 2011 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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A nice German hand-and-half sword circa 1560
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German hand-and-half sword
circa 1560
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German hand-and-half sword
circa 1560
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German hand-and-half sword
circa 1560
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German hand-and-half sword
circa 1560
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German hand-and-half sword
circa 1560
.:. Visit my Collection Gallery :: View my Reading List :: View my Wish List :: See Pages I Like :: Find me on Facebook .:.
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Nathan Robinson
myArmoury Admin
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| Posted: Mon 06 Jun, 2011 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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From the Higgins Armory
Accession Number: 208.2.a
Region: Germany and perhaps Italy
Artifact Type: "Hand-and-a-half" sword
Date: about 1570
Materials: Steel; wood; leather; brass
Weight: 3 lb. 12 oz.
Swords like this were among the most versatile weapons of the battlefield. It could be used one-handed on horseback, two-handed on foot; different techniques were used against armored and unarmored opponents; and the sword could even be turned around to deliver a powerful blow with the hilt. Mastery of the difficult physical skills of battle was one of the chief attributes of the aristocrat.
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Hand-and-a-half Sword, circa 1570
Copyright © Higgins Armory Museum
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Hand-and-a-half Sword, circa 1570
Copyright © Higgins Armory Museum
.:. Visit my Collection Gallery :: View my Reading List :: View my Wish List :: See Pages I Like :: Find me on Facebook .:.
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Nathan Robinson
myArmoury Admin
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Federico Tyrawskyj
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| Posted: Tue 26 Jul, 2011 11:04 pm Post subject: |
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I HAVE to revive this thread. I'm a horrible lurker here, but I can't let this thread full of insane swords go down the drain!
As a curiosity, do you guys know how much these hilts would weigh on average? The only complex hilted sword I own is a Windlass Late European Bastard sword, and I've got the feeling that its hilt is way heavier than his historicals counterparts. I mean, the thing feels clunky as hell (it weighs a couple of ounces over a pounds, I weighed it a while ago, but I can measure it again if you guys are interested.)
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Eric G.
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Aleksei Sosnovski
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| Posted: Wed 27 Jul, 2011 10:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Federico Tyrawskyj wrote: | I HAVE to revive this thread. I'm a horrible lurker here, but I can't let this thread full of insane swords go down the drain!
As a curiosity, do you guys know how much these hilts would weigh on average? The only complex hilted sword I own is a Windlass Late European Bastard sword, and I've got the feeling that its hilt is way heavier than his historicals counterparts. I mean, the thing feels clunky as hell (it weighs a couple of ounces over a pounds, I weighed it a while ago, but I can measure it again if you guys are interested.) |
I haven't weighted any originals but judging by my own creations I would say that anything between 150 and 400 grams, 200-300 grams being the safest bet. Swords themselves varied in weight and so did the crossguards. Also there are very different crossguards in this thread, starting from simple ones with a single sidering or none at all to some complex "baskets".
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Federico Tyrawskyj
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| Posted: Thu 28 Jul, 2011 12:52 am Post subject: |
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| Aleksei Sosnovski wrote: | | Federico Tyrawskyj wrote: | I HAVE to revive this thread. I'm a horrible lurker here, but I can't let this thread full of insane swords go down the drain!
As a curiosity, do you guys know how much these hilts would weigh on average? The only complex hilted sword I own is a Windlass Late European Bastard sword, and I've got the feeling that its hilt is way heavier than his historicals counterparts. I mean, the thing feels clunky as hell (it weighs a couple of ounces over a pounds, I weighed it a while ago, but I can measure it again if you guys are interested.) |
I haven't weighted any originals but judging by my own creations I would say that anything between 150 and 400 grams, 200-300 grams being the safest bet. Swords themselves varied in weight and so did the crossguards. Also there are very different crossguards in this thread, starting from simple ones with a single sidering or none at all to some complex "baskets". |
Interesting. I knew they'd be lighter than what I have. I measured the weight again, and it comes up to 1 pound 2.5 ounces (524 grams).
Mr. Sosnovski, would you happen to have a link or some pictures that you could show us of your creations?
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Aleksei Sosnovski
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This is a 
