Sorry, is there a non-threaded version of the tinker hanwei line?

My understanding is the recent Hanwei sale across the board on Hanwei/Tinkers was to make room for new inventory; it wasn't advertised as factory seconds in any way and as far as I know they were all normal H/T swords with the primary issues being their finish and edges.

I think the main causes of this problem are twofold:

Firstly, the type of fighting they're being used for-- metal on metal, edge parrying. This means that the blades are receiving more shocks than a sharp blade which goes *through* its targets.

Secondly, the way the blades are made to be interchangeable with sharps. That's one of Hanwei's favorite selling points-- that you can switch out sharp and blunt blades, and be accustomed to using the same setup (you see it with their rapiers also) while economizing by buying only another blade, not a full sword.

If I could change how it was set up I'd make it so the training versions were peened. They can do it with their Viking and Norman, why not the rest...

Hello all,

I'm afraid I'm going to have to disagree about the peened tangs. These are entry-level training swords, and as such, one of the selling points is indeed the ability to swap out a new blade when it gets chewed up. It's far more economical than replacing the entire sword - how many times have you had to replace a pommel? If you have an issue with rattle or loosening, a leather washer at each end of the grip and some loctite work wonders to cure both problems.

In fact, myself and several other groups use these almost exclusively, and without problem. Equipment wears out, and is not an issue, particularly not at this price point. We have at least 20 of the Tinker blunts in use, with another 10 of the arming swords - all perform splendidly. Yes, regular maintenance is required (filing, cleaning, etc.) but this is also the case with any other sports or martial arts equipment.

As to the comment that it's due to the type of fighting being done (forgive me, I didn't quote the poster and as such don't recall who said it...) with blade on blade contact versus soft targets - may I ask what type of swordfighting takes place without blade contact?

The tang breakage *is* an issue if it is recurring and a result of poor QC. Talk to KoA and see what they have to say about the issue.

Regards,

Sander, thanks for clearing that up. Yes, you're right, I wasn't sure if you were using sharps as it's difficult to tell for sure from the photos. I was, however, reluctant to believe that you were using sharp swords for sparring. I don't think the problem is fundamentally with the threaded tangs. My personal experience with the threaded offerings from H/T, as stated, has been positive, although I have both the H/T "Norman" and "9th Century Viking" swords, both of which are peened and I do prefer the peened examples. Perhaps a bad batch out of the Hanwei forge is the answer?

Jason, if you're referring to my comments as to the targets I use for recreational cutting, I would respond that there would most likely be some unavoidable blade on blade contact during sword combat, however such contact would, or should, be minimal given the type of swords shown in the photos (single hander, type XII swords) as opposed to fechtbuch longsword style combat. With the single hander swords I would hope that a shield or buckler would be used for parrying, and not the sword.

The reason I asked if the swords in question were factory seconds or not is that there was a conclusion being drawn in this topic that raised the possibility. I think concluding such things without asking the question of the vendor and/or the manufacturer is highly inappropriate.

Edit: It's reasonable to fear that a conclusion will be drawn that the items mentioned in the original post of this topic were sold as mislabeled factory-seconds. Before making such claims, one has to determine facts.

Every month Hanwei has a sale on assorted products. The sales are dealer-only, so not open to the general public and the items are typically overstock or out of production pieces, but there have been several that have been sold as factory seconds and others that were not labeled as such, but were clearly flawed. The fact that most H/T tinker sales that I see happen to coincide with H/T swords being part of a Hanwei sale and that the swords are often sold for below dealer cost leads me to the conclusion that either dealers are selling sale swords, or are fine with essentially paying their customers to take product off of their shelf

In reading of the issues over time, it appears the early examples were the ones having an issue. If there are no other outward differences visually from the first batch(es), there is really no way to isolate the good from bad that may yet be out there for sale.

As far as the sales, it was and has been not just the Hanwei/Tinker swords, so it could have been a surplus move overall. The Raptor katana sold quickly, the older (now updated) CAS Iberia clunkers were also part of one of these large sales.

As to feedback, Hanwei had an email addy or two in the olden days and I had conversed with Paul himself re the Godfred swords (mine in particular). I was also in contact with CAS, as the American distributor and the communication via email superb. Tuscany Trading was long gone by the time my sword failed but was a chain of command as it were for any to follow. Both KOA representatives (husband and wife) and Blake Pogue of Hanwei/CAS have been on some of the boards to field some issues but direct contact with any seems to be an easy start. Heck, pick up the phone and call them.

Cheers

GC

Hi all

First - sorry to hear you had some problems, Sander, and hope that gets resolved for you.

We bought a bunch of the Tinker Hanwei longsword blunts and they get a jolly good work-out, including playing with a Peter Lyon sword my instructor has. They have held up well and have even been used for throws and pommel strikes. Sure, they have worn a little but a file/diamond stone, some armor polish and away we go again.

We got them thru Ryan at KoA and even down here in the antipodes, he has been great with any issues (not that we have had any with these swords).

I have a one handed Tinker blunt that has had a little use for I.33 practice and that seems OK as well.

Biggest issue we have had is some wear on the allen nut from tightening.

cheers

mike

Eric, did you talk to KOA yet?
I've nothing but great experiences from them so I expect they'll treat you good.

Hey Guys,

To date no one has contacted us regarding this issue, we had to find out about it by accident. The accusation that we knowingly sell factory seconds as new, is extremely insulting to me personally. I realize this was stated as a question rather than a fact, but the damaging impact is the same.

To misrepresent a product we are offering would go against everything I stand for. I run this business with a sense of honor and integrity, as many of our customers can attest. We reject many items that other dealers would, and do, routinely, sell as new. Those items are discounted further and sold as dent & scratch or blemished items. All of those items come to us as new from their respective suppliers. If we are willing to hold these products to higher standards then even the manufacturers do in many cases, and discount what we feel does not live up to that standard to the break even point, what possible motivation would we have to purposely take defective merchandise and lie about it? Considering how much product was sold during those sales, believe me, if it were defective, you would know about it. There would be hundreds of customers all over the world complaining about it. I am not a criminal or an idiot as I would have to be to assume I could sell defective merchandise as new, so I resent the implication that I am either or both.

Here are the facts. Hanwei does not offer factory seconds to dealers. In over a decade of purchasing from CAS/Hanwei we have never been offered any factory second items. Their official policy it to send those items back to the factory. Contact them directly if you wish to verify this. There was no Hanwei "factory second" sale. Again, this is just internet BS spouted off by people with no knowledge of the situation at hand. If Hanwei did decide to sell off rejected product during their resent sales they did so without making this known to any of their dealers. We sold a lot of product during those sales, inspected all of it and found very few issues. As always, anything we felt was less than standard was rejected. I do not know Hanwei's motivation for their sale. They very well may have been clearing out the older versions of some of these swords to make way for an improved update, but that, by no means, makes the older stock "defective".

Since starting this reply, the OP has emailed us, so I will deal with his issue privately.


If any of you have any further questions, feel free to contact me directly at the email on our website. I will be happy to discuss this with you.

Ryan Whittlinger
www.KultOfAthena.com

Ryan, thank you for taking the time to post in here.

Looking at my own participation in this topic might give the others an idea of why I was voicing concern and caution.

I'm shocked that the vendor (Ryan of Kult of Athena) was not first contacted about this issue. Further, I'm shocked that even the implication about the products being misrepresented was presented here. This is highly irresponsible behavior. This not only does a disservice to the vendor, but also affects our culture dramatically. When participating here, I encourage everybody to consider the health of the very market in which you guys participate.

To everyone: Never assume. Ask the vendor. Implications are not helpful to anyone. These are not hard concepts.

I wholeheartedly second what Ryan has to say. I am a repeat customer at Kult of Athena and the primary reason I do business with them is their professionalism and integrity, as well as courtesy. I will continue to do business with KOA for those reasons and because I have full confidence in their products. I have purchased my swords from Kult of Athena for several years and there has never been any doubt in my mind that KOA does not now sell, nor ever has sold, factory seconds.