Hi,

I've this recent 'fetish' about WW II Japanese Officer Shin Gunto, particularly the Type 98 model; I came across some retailers in the Net selling what seemingly 'relic' pieces & these come in wooden scabbard, whereas I noticed Military Heritage makes replicas of them in metal scabbard...

Can someone enlighten me as to what the scabbard of the original Shin Gunto was like? I wish to know so that I may purchase the rightful one.

Any info is welcome :) Many thanks~

Hi Larry,

Unfortunately I myself know little about gunto. I do not know to what extent you are familiar with some of the resources available on them, however, so I will mention a couple in passing.

A quick Google search brought up this page, which I had seen before but forgotten about, and which includes a Type 98. I don't really know much about this site but it looks decent enough - much is still in Japanese only however. The translated English text says something about Type 98 mounts where "the scabbard changed with iron, aluminum, and a leather cover wooden scabbard," but it is not clear exactly what the sentence means in context - go draw your own conclusions. ;)

Dr. Rich Stein's always-useful Japanese Sword Guide has some words on shin-gunto in general here, in which it appears that certain types have wooden or metal saya (though specific numbered types are not mentioned). John Yumoto's book The Samurai Sword: A Handbook (see bottom of page) mentions that they have leather-covered brown metal scabbards. Again this is a bit too general to be of real use.

Among the standard reference works on the subject (see again Dr. Stein's book list, the WWII section midway down the page) is Japanese Military and Civil Swords and Dirks by Richard Fuller and Ron Gregory. This book is supposed to be the go-to text, but is not the easiest or cheapest to find. Military Swords of Japan by the same authors might be a good alternative; it is currently available from Satcho at least.

I hope that gives you at least one new starting point for your research. If not, you can always cross-post in the Nihonto Message Board. I'd do a search there now myself, but it's late already.

Cheers,
-GLL

Hi Larry,

The shin-gunto pattern is, if I recall correctly, the 1937 pattern. This is the usual variant encountered. These have steel scabbards, or, but much more rarely, an aluminium scabbard. These are often encountered with the leather combat covers. Very late examples of this pattern have been seen with wooden scabbards, but theses are unusual, and it is possible that many of these were 'tourist' pieces made after the war to satisfy the demand for returning GI's to take home a samurai sword. Some of these were made in India, even then!
The kyu- gunto pattern is much earlier, dating to the turn of the century. This is the pattern with the long thin knuckle bow. These have steel scabbards and may be encountered with leather combat covers on the scabbards as well.
Often when an old sword was taken into combat the wooden saya was retained, but with the kurigata usually removed, and the whole scabbard was covered with leather.
There are lots of variations, especially in the later examples, which can cause the beginner collector some problems.

It is some years since I collected Nihon-To, but I have always kept my love and interest for these fabulous swords, so if I can help in any further way, just drop me a line. :)

Regards,

Russ

Of course Larry, if you're really worried about buying the "correct" item, you could just acquire an original. ;)

Hi Gabriel , Russ..

Thank you very much for pointing me to those online articles... I shall take time to scrutinize them :D

The reason for this discussion is I'm looking to purchase a replica/'antique' shin gunto. Looks like I'm gonna put the idea on hold as long as I have not finished those articles...

Thank you both, once again..

Larry

Wow Gabriel... that's an eye-opener! Very tempting indeed...

Many thanks~

Gabriel Lebec wrote:

Of course Larry, if you're really worried about buying the "correct" item, you could just acquire an original. ;)

Gabriel Lebec wrote:

Quote:

Of course Larry, if you're really worried about buying the "correct" item, you could just acquire an original.

Here, here!! :D

Try:

www.michaeldlong.com

He usually has a reasonable selection of shin- gunto katanas for sale, at very reasonable prices.

Or if you are after a replica, then World wide Arms in Birmingham ,England , had a very good replica Shin-gunto. They also had the NCO's pattern with the cast alloy grip for sale too. Sorry, I am not sure of their website address.

Gabriel,

This sounds interesting, so as soon as I have a moment I will read those articles too! :) Though I have had several traditional katanas , wakizashi and tanto, it was the shin- gunto that appealed to me. Because ,to me , it is the blade that is all important, and the subject of Japanese sword fittings is such an immense subject in itself. I think that is the same reason that Ron Gregory changed from 'Samurai swords' to military ones. It is also interesting to have a WW2 sword with an old blade, to think that something several hundred years old was still carried relatively recently.

Regards,

Russ

Hi Russ,

Michaedlong's items will be way beyond what my pockets can afford, I'm afraid... but thanks for the info., I shall pop in there to satisfy my curiousity :p

Gabriel,

No worries.. I'll keep you posted once I manage to lay my hands on some guntos; till date, the ones @ Military Heritage seem most attractive & affordable to me....

FYI this thread convinced me to go get J. Dawson's recently updated Swords of Imperial Japan: 1868-1945, Cyclopedia edition. I come across gunto queries often enough that I figured I ought to at least know the basics even if my principal interest is traditional nihonto.