That's not rapier, is it? -- myArmoury.com

Kerim Mamedov · Posted: Thu 05 Apr, 2007 6:02 am Post subject: That's not rapier, is it?

Thinking about buying this sword, (though it's not oriental one Happy

)
Seller say it's rapier, but I didn't think so, while it looks great.
probably every one here now what sword it is, right? Happy

Kerim Mamedov · Posted: Thu 05 Apr, 2007 6:06 am Post subject: Re: That's not rapier, is it?

some signs on a blade

Alex Oster · Posted: Thu 05 Apr, 2007 6:37 am Post subject:

Pretty sure thats a classic "dress saber" as they seem to be called around my way.
Pretty hilt though. Too bad its not on a fuller battle worthy blade.

Robin Smith · Posted: Thu 05 Apr, 2007 6:39 am Post subject:

I'm no expert, but its certainly not a rapier. It looks like a military dress sword (...no kidding... maybe the army and navy coop thing tipped me off Wink

Not trying to be snarky.... ) Seriously though, if this guy is trying to pass that off as a rapier don't buy it (I mean, you can buy it, just don't buy the story that its a rapier...)

Jonathan Hopkins · Posted: Thu 05 Apr, 2007 7:59 am Post subject:

That is a British Pattern 1897 infantry officer's sword. The cypher on the blade and guard is that of George V (1910-1936). According to Bezdek's Swords and Sword Makers of England and Scotland, the Army and Navy Cooperative Society was in business at 105 Victoria Street between 1890 and 1934. So the approximate timeframe for this sword would be between 1910-1934. The Army and Navy Cooperative Society was an outfitter, so the sword was likely made by another firm.

As to this sword's use, it was not just a dress sword. The blade was introduced in 1892 and was mated with the 1854 Pattern "gothic" hilt. The hilt was not satisfactory and was later replaced with a steel three-quarter basket hilt in 1895. In 1897, the inboard side of the guard was turned down (towards the blade end) to prevent fraying of uniforms. Robson cites an article from the Journal of the Society for Army Historical Research from 1934 in which a correspondent recalls the that this pattern (1895 Pattern) served him excellently in hand-to-hand-fighting against the Dervishes in the Sudan, in a way that its predecessor could not have done. This sword came in two forms; a more robust service blade and a lighter 'piquet' or 'levee' blade. The blade has a broad fuller that runs about half of the length of the blade. The blade is unsharpened for about 2/3 of its length, resulting in a blade that has a dumbbell cross section. The blade is meant to be a lethal thrusting weapon. There are extensive discussions of this Pattern over on the Anitique and Military sub-forum of www.swordforum.com.

So while many iterations of this Pattern probably did end up only being used for dress purposes (it is today--the 1897 is still currently used today), it was designed as a fighting weapon.

Jonathan

GG Osborne · Posted: Thu 05 Apr, 2007 8:54 am Post subject:

I believe the Star of David indicates a blade by Wilkinson. The entire sword may be a Wilkinson contract sword for the military outfitters mentioned above.

Sam Barris · Posted: Thu 05 Apr, 2007 9:03 am Post subject:

It may be a Wilkinson, but not because of the star. Everyone uses that, even to this day. Wilkinson actually discontinued their use of it because it was so widely used.

Kerim Mamedov · Posted: Thu 05 Apr, 2007 10:10 am Post subject:

Thanks a lot!
I was walking in darknes, now my eyes are open and I see things in day light Happy