Windlass Type XIV - pretty decent on first impression -- myArmoury.com

Joe Fults

Just got this Windlass:

http://kultofathena.com/product~item~500972.htm

Came from Kult of Athena. Quick turn and a value added QC. The one week ship time was accurate BTW.

An official review will be forthcoming, but while they still have it in production, if you want a cheap Type XIV its worth a look.

The scabbard is basic Windlass fare but the blade (fuller) is much cleaner than the stock photos. They should reshoot it because the online pictures make the fuller look crappy, and its better in person. Handling is pretty good, fuller actually extends past the guard, leather handle wrap could be better. Its one of the rare Windlass pieces I've run into that seems decent and at $190 KoA price it appears to be a fair value.

Don't know if the furniture really match the blade or not, so accuracy ::shrug::

Joe Fults · Posted: Mon 26 Mar, 2007 5:31 pm Post subject:

After a bit more playing with this one, I'm still inclined to say its a fair value at its price point.

Sam Barris · Posted: Tue 27 Mar, 2007 6:28 am Post subject:

Wouldn't that technically be a Type XVI? Looks like a fun little sword, whatever it is. Happy

Joe Fults · Posted: Tue 27 Mar, 2007 7:47 am Post subject:

Well...its a close call at that.

I'll have to look at mine a bit more closely, but I'm more inclined to say XIV than XVI right now at least. That said I'm not near the sword at the moment.

Greyson Brown · Posted: Tue 27 Mar, 2007 8:53 am Post subject:

I recently had a chance to handle one of these, as Patrick Kelly got one for his son. It does have a flattened diamond cross section at the point that makes it more type XVI like, but that seems to be one of the typical concessions for swords of this price. The blade silhouette is actually very close to what it should be for a type XIV. I wish they had taken some more time with the guard, as it is rather bulkier than needed, and I think that detracts from what would be a surprisingly nice piece otherwise. This sword gives me hope that MRL might still make some nice historically based pieces.

-Grey

Chad Arnow · myArmoury Team

Chad Arnow · myArmoury Team

By the way, this sword has been discussed here before, where the cross-section was brought up: http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=9087

Joe Fults · Posted: Tue 27 Mar, 2007 1:11 pm Post subject:

Joe Fults · Posted: Tue 27 Mar, 2007 1:15 pm Post subject:

Tweak the guard, tweak the grip, and maybe tweak the blade tip so it at least appears lenticular. Its still seems better than most of what I had available several years ago when I started buying these things. I wonder how much some of these details would have mattered to anybody buying a production sword five years ago?

BTW if somebody like these guys ever do start paying attention to the detail, our dear American firms are probably going to be in trouble. I think attention to detail is a big separator.

Stephen Scott · Posted: Tue 27 Mar, 2007 6:04 pm Post subject:

I bought this sword a few weeks ago as well. I couldn't find any flaws with it, but I didn't try to cut anything with it either. It felt very light to me. I was actually hoping the piece would have more blade presence, but then again, I didn't and still don't know how a type XIV is supposed to feel. I returned it, but as I like the look of the sword, I've been thinking about purchasing this type from Albion, maybe the yeoman. Also, the blade on mine, while it seemed sturdy enough, seemed a little whippy for such a short sword.

Joe Fults · Posted: Tue 27 Mar, 2007 6:39 pm Post subject:

Angus Trim · Posted: Tue 27 Mar, 2007 7:28 pm Post subject:

Joe Fults · Posted: Tue 27 Mar, 2007 8:42 pm Post subject:

I knew exactly what I was buying when I made this purchase, a cheap and disposable tool to satisfy my curiosity. Surprisingly it ended up being a bit nicer than I expected. It’s also something I can live with killing, or more simply, I can afford to kill. I can't go out and beat a nicer $500 or $1000 tool to death. I can't comfortably drop a premium tool in the mud just to see what happens. There are many rough things I cannot do with an expensive tool and be happy, but there are quite a few things I’d like to try, things I can try, with this tool.

For example I’ve already been using this Windlass very hard to see if I could get a failure of some sort, at least a loose hilt or pommel. I’ve basically been cutting firewood with it. It’s not an axe (obviously), but it is holding together well. I’ll see how it does over a few more weeks before getting too excited, but so far, this effort by Windlass is better than many previous efforts I've seen. Maybe better than all the previous efforts I’ve seen from Windlass by way of India.

Maybe.

Regardless, just in case I'm being blinded by my sense of value, I do intend to have other people look it over. It’s going to have warts, but it might surprise some other people too.

Based on some of the changes I see in this item, I think that the Indians can improve, can move up market, and can sell to any consumer band if they decide its worth the effort. To think it cannot happen ignores what international firms have already accomplished in a wide array of industries. The empty automotive, heavy equipment, steel, and tool factories being scavenged for scrap by abandoned workers around here seem to be painful and scary evidence that overseas companies can do many things very well when they set their minds to it.

Patrick Kelly · Posted: Wed 28 Mar, 2007 7:54 am Post subject:

I've been meaning to take a few photos of this one, but work has been very busy of late and I just haven't felt like dragging out the camera equipment once I get home.

Most of the current Windlass pieces I've seen over the last year or so, probably 6-7 pieces, have represented a good value for the price. Windlass has made some improvements and I can honestly say the product is now worth what you pay for it. For most of the companies sword-making history this wasn't the case. I agree about the guard, it's the biggest aesthetic let-down of the sword. If this were a project piece a little time with a dremel tool would improve that immensely. The blade is still a bit too thin and flexible like most Windlass swords seem to be these days.

Yes, you can now bash them around without any real fear of the thing spontaneously disassembling and the aesthetics have certainly improved. However, we can do many of those things with a crow bar or an axe, so they really don't seperate a good sword from a bad one. The current Windlass product is still a long way from competing with the the higher end offerings. Yes, this sword is a good buy for the price. However, like all other Windlass swords it lacks the finer points of engineering and geometry the separate an okay value and a true recreation. There's still a vast gulf between the two and it's taken Windlass literally decades to implement what changes we've seen. We shouldn't let our enthusiasm over getting a decent deal, or our dissatisfaction with price increases, blind us to the hard core data. Windlass quality has improved but their product is still a long way from the "real deal".

Yes, the Indians can make a good sword when they want to, I've seen some examples. On the other hand it would take a dramatic restructuring of their business mentality and their production model to make that happen on a regular and consistent basis. Companies have tried to go this route with the Indians and none of them have met with success, the philosophy just doesn't seem to be there. Even then the factors of additional research and training would come into play. As we've often said: it takes more than replicating a two-dimensional photo to make a truly accurate sword. We shouldn't forget that simply because we've gotten a good bang for our buck. To do that it takes training, education and research. All of which takes time and while I may not be a marketing jedi master, I do see that time is money and money is the bottom line for any business, especially one that uses a cottage industry/piece-work philosophy.

Can it happen? Sure. Will it? Since Windlass seems to be quite happy maintaining their low operating costs and absolutely astronomical mark-up I don't see it happening.

Angus Trim · Posted: Wed 28 Mar, 2007 8:28 am Post subject:

Hi Joe

I don't see that we have any major disagreement, I actually see something like this starting to happen in the market, and that's why I'm more a "tactical" guy now than western medieval.....

But your original point was:

"BTW if somebody like these guys ever do start paying attention to the detail, our dear American firms are probably going to be in trouble"

And mine was that it would take more than just paying a bit more attention to detail. Can they do it, correct all of the things i mentioned? Sure........Over the last 7 years, I've seen at least 100 WS pieces, and have seen maybe five pieces that were pretty good. I've read other success stories like yours {so far}, so yes, if WS could improve their consistency, then yes, they might be able to shoulder Albion out of the market........ after all, in a way, its happened before, though the circumstances were different....

Hanwei pretty much took over the katana market a few years ago, and their main competition in the midrange down are other Chinese firms............. But when Bugei and CASI introduced Hanwei to the American and European market there was no firm American industry.........

Hanwei has pretty much become the dominant player in the "sparring" arena, both longsword and rapier. Not because they make the best, but because they have dominated in price, and have improved their product over the last three years dramatically.......And this niche was wide open too........

However, the Western Mediveval Sword market is pretty much established. There's still two full time players {Albion and A&A}, and one with a presence {though small}, and the market has pretty much been sold on Albion as the "standard".

The market is saturated, and thus there will be changes. Its the nature of the game...... and already you have Gen 2 climbing the ladder, there's nothing to stop WS from the doing the same.......

Arms and Armor, though has been around over 20 years. And they've adapted to a changing market, almost constantly. I suspect they'll adapt again........

Albion may very well be the "target", as they're the standard. But the kind of artistry you see when you look at an Albion Next Gen in repose, doesn't happen just because someone can draw a nice two dimensional picture. It happens because of Passion...... Peter Johnsson is a very passionate artist, and I do not see Albion being an easy target, to a large degree, because of that Passion........

Joe Fults · Posted: Wed 28 Mar, 2007 8:31 am Post subject:

It all comes down to whether or not they decide to make the effort. They took some steps with this piece. Admittedly small steps, and perhaps this is the greatest height Windlass will ever scale, then again, perhaps not.

I did say "if" these guys ever start paying attention to detail, not when.

Regardless a month ago I would have dismissed any sword from Windlass out of hand based on my prior experience with their product, regardless of cost. Today I'm less inclined to do that.

However small, I at least have to give them that success.

Joe Fults · Posted: Wed 28 Mar, 2007 8:35 am Post subject:

Joe Fults · Posted: Wed 28 Mar, 2007 9:43 am Post subject:

Joe Fults · Posted: Fri 20 Apr, 2007 4:12 pm Post subject:

Gave this sword a pool noodle workout today.

For an unsharpened sword it cuts noodles quite nicely.

Everything still nice and tight too.

So far so good.