[Adam Simmonds]

Hi there,

while this conversation is generating some interesting information on the composition of scabbards etc, the original question, concerning the fit of scabbards during medieval times seems, to me, an odd one, similar to asking something like: "How tightly did shoes fit feet in renaissance Italy?"
As numerous posters, including the originator of the topic, have suggested, a scabbard is seen to fit well (as are shoes), when firm and snug without being so tight as to make the sword (or feet) difficult to insert and withdraw, while remaining not so loose so that the sword (or feet) should rattle about and/ or easily slip out. Perhaps I'm missing something here, but it would seem pretty obvious to me.
Please note: this is not meant as a criticism of the original post so much as a statement of my own opinion on the topic under discussion and I welcome rebuttals to my perhaps overly simplistic perspective on this matter.

cheers, adam

[Elling Polden]

Basically, you want a fit that is just tight enough for the sword to not fall out when you are running, and lose enough that you can pull the sword in one fluid motion without having to grasp the scabbard.
Given the choice, I'd rather have one that was a bit to loose than one that is to tight.
Often, your "life" depends on that fast draw, and a sword that is stuck in the scabard, even so much, can make a huge difference. For instance, even if the sword comes loose with a quick thug, the thug might pull the scabbard forwards, so that you can not clear the sword from the scabbard.

Wooden scabbards are also inherently expendable. I found this out last weekend, when my nice, new scabbard broke when I fell on it after 45 minutes of use.

[Chad Arnow]

Adam,
Yes, it seems to be obvious and common sense to modern folks, but do we have any evidence besides modern common sense? That's the question. We can assume (or prefer) things would be one way for very valid reasons, but that doesn't necessarily make it so.

For example, many people prefer dark basic colors for their scabbards and want scabbard and grip color to match. The matching appeals to the modern sense of order and/or symmetry. The more muted colors speak to many people's view of the Middle Ages as dark and colorless, somber. Looking at period art, though, things may have been quite different. In that case, period art shows that for many people modern sensibilities don't match historical evidence.

My hope was to get some hard evidence that modern scabbard makers are doing it correctly with the relatively tight fit we see. Peter has come up with the most compelling evidence that they are, but his is based estimations and what he knows about how modern weapons were put together. It's compelling and his experience means a lot (more than my own ever will). However, no one has really studied this aspect of the sword and we apparently have no documentation on how things actually worked.

People have guessed that a loose scabbard could dull the sword. Does anyone have firsthand experience with that? If so, that would be interesting to hear about.

We have many guesses and assumptions about how things might have been. Many of these are likely sound and based on good logical thinking. I was trying to move beyond that and see if there was any real evidence to support our suppositions.

[Adam Simmonds]

hi there,

Chad - I take your point that we cannot simply assume that something is/ was so just because it seems obvious to us from our viewpoint. In fact, now i think about it, it is perhaps these, our most 'common sense' and seemingly obvious assumptions, which deserve the most careful scrutiny. For as such assumptions are by their nature most readily swallowed, they can, thereby, most readily lead to the ingestion of inaccurate ideas.

cheers, adam