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Claire Bezzina
Location: Malta Joined: 24 Jan 2007
Posts: 2
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 Posted: Wed 24 Jan, 2007 9:26 am Post subject: Edward III Sword |
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Perhaps someone can help me..
I am looking for a replica of Edward III Sword, can someone give me a good website / manufacturer because I came around several websites.. they all seem to have the same pictures and info.. but their price range differ!
thnx alot
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Chris Olsen
Location: Saint Paul Joined: 23 Mar 2006
Posts: 54
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| Posted: Wed 24 Jan, 2007 10:30 am Post subject: |
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Try www.arms-n-armor.com, http://www.arms-n-armor.com/sword157.html they have an awsome one there,
del tin also had a very good reproduction at one time, sadly I am unable to find the link to it at this time.
if you can find one (good luck) the "sword of the king of jerusalem" from kingdom of heaven is a good reproduction of the sword minus the garter engraving on the blade
good luck in your search
chris
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Roger Hooper
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| Posted: Wed 24 Jan, 2007 11:00 am Post subject: |
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Then there is the Hanwei/Paul Chen version, SH2033, which is cheaper and of much lower quality than the Arms and Armor model. It can be found many places, including - http://kultofathena.com/product~item~PC2033.htm - Kult of Athena is a reliable vendor.
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Steve Grisetti
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| Posted: Wed 24 Jan, 2007 3:33 pm Post subject: |
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Please note that myArmoury.com has a Hands-On Review of the Arms & Armor version of the Edward III sword, which is the link that Chris provided in his post, above. While there is not a review of Hanwei's version on this site, there are reviews of several other Hanwei/Paul Chen offerings, such as the William Marshall Sword. While the William Marshall is a different model, the review may still give you some useful input.
"...dismount thy tuck, be yare in thy preparation, for thy assailant is quick, skilful, and deadly."
- Sir Toby Belch
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Merv Cannon
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| Posted: Wed 24 Jan, 2007 5:05 pm Post subject: Edward III Sword |
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| Roger Hooper wrote: | | Then there is the Hanwei/Paul Chen version, SH2033, which is cheaper and of much lower quality than the Arms and Armor model. It can be found many places, including - http://kultofathena.com/product~item~PC2033.htm - Kult of Athena is a reliable vendor. |
I have'nt had the opportunity to examine any of these models but the humble Hanwei sword which I now own. But I can vouch for this..... can lay the Hanwei model next to Oakshotts book "Records of the Medieval Sword" ( which, as Im sure you all know, has a great photo essay on this sword in the back ) ...and I cant tell the difference visually from the original except mine is newer looking. I cant do that with the more expensive A&A model as the rings on the grip arent even the same or in the correct position ! ....go figure ! The Hanwei model even has the Adder-skin grip like the original So one would want to be assured as to what exactly the extra expense of the A&A represents. I myself will not be using mine to train or fight with and I dont think that too many folks out there would either. So, lets face it, we are talking about trying to obtain the most accurate copy possible for our money, yes ? I know that someone else also does an 'excellent' copy but I'd have to dig through my files to find out who....I think in Europe somewhere.
Cheers.
Merv ....... KOLR
http://www.lionrampant.com.au/
"Then let slip the dogs of war ! "......Woof !
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Edward Hitchens
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| Posted: Wed 24 Jan, 2007 11:16 pm Post subject: Re: Edward III Sword |
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| Merv Cannon wrote: | | So one would want to be assured as to what exactly the extra expense of the A&A represents. |
The A&A version is completely handmade with higher quality steel and materials. I think this one of the pieces that A&A will only make if someone orders one. Engravings are more clearly defined, by sandblasting if I remember correctly from the review. Also, this version of the Edward III is designed to handle more like the original, though Craig would know best. Hilt is made of gilt bronze. The aesthetics of this sword undoubtedly take longer to produce than a less-ornate piece with no gold or bronze on it. Any owners of this sword care to comment further?
"The whole art of government consists in the art of being honest." Thomas Jefferson
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Chad Arnow
myArmoury Team
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| Posted: Thu 25 Jan, 2007 6:32 am Post subject: Re: Edward III Sword |
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The Hanwei is actually quite detailed for the price. The pommel and guard are gold-plated steel. I consider the Hanwei to be a pretty good value. As for bronze fittings vs. steel under the plating, I'm assuming both companies cast those components. The material it's cast in shouldn't dictate a real difference in the time required to produce it. Copper-based metals (like bronze) generally take plating better than steel, though.
That said, if you buy A&A you're paying for the research and the craftsmanship. I've handled both versions (the Hanwei very briefly). The A&A has a number of little differences to help keep the price down. If they hit every detail and still used their normal materials and craftsmanship, the price would jump even further. So they choose to make a few compromises to keep it reasonable.
The Hanwei didn't feel that great in the hand to me, but that's just my opinion based on very little dry handling.
ChadA
http://chadarnow.com/
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Russ Ellis
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Thu 25 Jan, 2007 11:14 am Post subject: |
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I saw the Hanwei version at the Blade show 2 years ago. To be honest I do not remember all the details (although I believe I took some notes at the time) but I definitely remember not being too impressed. As I recall the one I handled seemed very much to be a copy of a copy... that is a bit fuzzy in most of the details like something that has gone through too many generations of being mimeographed. I suspect that Hanwei copied their version from A&As although I do not know that for sure. Perhaps they have upgraded it since then I do not know.
TRITONWORKS Custom Scabbards
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William Knight
Location: Mid atlantic, US Joined: 02 Oct 2005
Posts: 133
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| Posted: Thu 25 Jan, 2007 1:02 pm Post subject: |
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Does anyone know of a modern swordsmith that's replicated the rock crystal inside the pommel that's found on the original?
-Will
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Mike Harris
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| Posted: Thu 25 Jan, 2007 2:30 pm Post subject: Re: Edward III Sword |
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| Chad Arnow wrote: | The Hanwei is actually quite detailed for the price. The pommel and guard are gold-plated steel. I consider the Hanwei to be a pretty good value. As for bronze fittings vs. steel under the plating, I'm assuming both companies cast those components. The material it's cast in shouldn't dictate a real difference in the time required to produce it. Copper-based metals (like bronze) generally take plating better than steel, though.
That said, if you buy A&A you're paying for the research and the craftsmanship. I've handled both versions (the Hanwei very briefly). The A&A has a number of little differences to help keep the price down. If they hit every detail and still used their normal materials and craftsmanship, the price would jump even further. So they choose to make a few compromises to keep it reasonable.
The Hanwei didn't feel that great in the hand to me, but that's just my opinion based on very little dry handling. |
I own and use a Hanwei Edward III that I purchased last November from Kult of Athena. I purchased this sword as an actual "user sword" because I couldn't find any other inexpensive Type XVIII hand and a half sword from a manufacturer I trust. I would actually have preferred a plainer model. I state that as a preface to what follows.
I agree with Chad Arnow that this sword offers a great deal of intricate detail work for a sword that can be purchased for $230. It really is a visually attractive sword in hand. The adder skin grip wrap is quite a nice historical touch, as is the coat of arms on one side of the pommel and the "crystal" insert in the other side. The etching on the blade seems to be an exact copy of the original. The original sword it's based on has a distinctly hollow ground blade, which certainly couldn't be expected on this value-priced example. For that reason, the Hanwei version is quite a bit heavier in the blade. It also comes with a scabbard that is by far the best example I have ever heard of on a value-priced sword. I would guess this scabbard alone would cost hundreds of dollars to have reproduced.
As stated, I bought this as a user, not for it's admittedly fine detail. I have used this sword for a moderate amount of cutting exercises. As it came, the blade looked sharp but wasn't really sharp enough to cut with. It made a good "Coke bottle bat" as it wouldn't cut plastic. After sharpening, and other changes, it cuts well and handles "kind of middle of the road". It is a bit too heavy for a sword of this type, but is has a lot of "authority" to it.
As it came, this sword was extremely blade heavy. The POB was about 7 inches past the guard. It made the sword slow-handling, feeling to me to be "clumsy" in dry handling. Being a person of questionable character with regard to pretty swords, I embarked on a quest to improve the handling a bit. I determined that adding a little weight to the pommel might improve the situation. After much effort, I successfully removed the crystal from the pommel only to find that it is a hollow casting. This was both a disappointment and an opportunity for improvement of handling. As a quick fix, I filled the hollow pommel with about 2-3 ounces of molten lead/tin alloy. The change in handling was drastic. The POB moved back to 4 1/2 inches and a considerable amount of hilt vibration went away. I am now much happier with the handling.
I heard the hilt fittings were of gold plated steel, but I believe that is only correct for the A&A version. The Hanwei version I have has brass fittings. This was obvious from both the spots where the gold has worn off and the interior of the hollow pommel. Also, it was for certain when I cut away all the hilt rings to improve the comfort of the grip.
I know that I may be branded a heretic on this forum for admitting to such obvious abuse of a pretty decorative sword. But I ask for your forebearance, as I am simply a lowly man-at-arms looking for a sword that works well at a lower price.
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Craig Johnson
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Thu 25 Jan, 2007 2:35 pm Post subject: Ed III Swd |
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Hi Guys
Have to say thanks to Merv for pointing out the issues with the bands on the grip being the wrong size and place. We have been doing this replica for many years and over time we had gotten the bands off a bit somehow. Not sure why but when you look at something all the time it can just blend in on you and it doesn't register. It was fortuitous that I saw the thread this morning as we were just finishing a batch of these for orders. We decided to scrap the bands and do new ones closer to the original.
The one thing that may have thrown us off was a picture of the original where the two bands were slightly different places. They are loose. The centerpiece is not.
I believe the Hanwei replica left the escutcheons off the end of the guard arms on their replica.
As for our piece being worth the money, all I can say is that we feel our sword is worth the price we ask, but everyone is entitled to their opinion.
Best
Craig
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Nathan Robinson
myArmoury Admin
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| Posted: Thu 25 Jan, 2007 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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It's been quite some time since I've handled either sword and my experience with the Arms & Armor version and the Hanwei version have never been side-by-side. Having said this, my impressions of each sword is that they are of very different proportions when compared to each other.
Keeping in mind my disclaimer that it's been quite some time since I've seen either sword, the Hanwei has filed itself into my memory as being both smaller than the A&A version and having different proportions in the hilt.
The impression that the A&A sword has always left on me is just how big the sword is. It's an impressive weapon and an impressive canvas for the artistic embellishments that define it. I've no doubt that it closely matches the antique original on which it is based. The dynamics of this sword are fantastic.
I was less impressed with the dynamics of the Hanwei sword. In fact, the two versions I've handled were both dead in the hand and quite difficult to wield. They were, however, very different from each other so I'd presume mileage will vary across the various samples of this model.
If my memory hasn't completely failed me, this leaves me wondering why the Hanwei version is so considerably different and what it has used for its inspiration. I couldn't help but wonder if it was, in fact, based on the A&A offering. I'm not making accusations, as none of us will know for sure what was used for inspiration, but it has left that question in my mind.
Either way, the Hanwei sample is an impressive looking sword. In some ways, it has more detail than the A&A samples I've handled. I'm not convinced that this is a good thing in that such things often look more modern and take away from the character of an antique replica, but they are there nonetheless and many consumers value this effect. I do like that the Hanwei version uses a material (resin? plastic?) on the reverse side of the pommel to mimic the crystal found on the antique. It's a pretty attractive feature and a reasonable facsimile to what it's trying to replicate. I also like the the fact that the sword has a decent scabbard essentially thrown in for free to an already well-priced sword.
Any way you slice it, comparing the two swords is a difficult task. They are quite different from one another. They are likely aimed at different consumers. For me, I've passed on the Hanwei because the samples I've held did not have the dynamics of a good sword and the proportions of the piece seemed "off" to me. I've wanted the A&A version for quite some time, but I've also passed on that because the price point always seemed to get it bumped for some other piece that caught my fancy.
I feel that the A&A version is worth the asking price and it's still on my want list. It may fall into my hands again some day. Only time will tell.
.:. Visit my Collection Gallery :: View my Reading List :: View my Wish List :: See Pages I Like :: Find me on Facebook .:.
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Mike Harris
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| Posted: Thu 25 Jan, 2007 4:24 pm Post subject: |
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Just one more point of interest.
The Hanwei version of the Edward III sword actually uses some form of glass crystal in the pommel. It's about 1/8 inch thick and requires a chisel and concerted effort to remove. I tried drilling a hole in it with a new titanium nitride coated tungston carbide drill bit and could hardly scratch it.
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Bob Burns
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| Posted: Fri 26 Jan, 2007 10:10 am Post subject: Re: Edward III Sword |
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| Quote: | | I cant do that with the more expensive A&A model as the rings on the grip arent even the same or in the correct position ! ....go figure ! |
I talked to Craig yesterday (Thursday) and they have corrected the bands on all 5 Edward III Swords that are going out either today or Monday as a result of your post! Thanks Merv!
Bob
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Chad Arnow
myArmoury Team
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| Posted: Fri 26 Jan, 2007 8:10 pm Post subject: |
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| William Knight wrote: | Does anyone know of a modern swordsmith that's replicated the rock crystal inside the pommel that's found on the original?
-Will |
The rock crystal is a thin disc inset in one of the hollows on one side. Hanwei uses some material (don't know what) for theirs. A&A leaves theirs blank as a stock sword, though I'm sure they could be talked into putting crystal in there if someone wanted to pay for it.
ChadA
http://chadarnow.com/
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Bob Burns
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| Posted: Fri 26 Jan, 2007 8:20 pm Post subject: |
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Well, I am 1 of the 5 people waiting on this "batch" of Edward III Swords from Arms & Armor and you cannot imagine the case of "Tic Toc Tic Toc's" that I have got  The swords are slated to ship on Monday, my location is a 2 day destination from Arms & Armor, so my Edward III Sword will arrive on Wednesday!
It's been months, waiting another day or two is simply no problem, I am so grateful to Merv Cannon for his post and elaborating on how Arms & Armor have had the bands in the wrong placement! Also, my thanks to Claire Bezzina for initiating this thread which brought about the post of Merv Cannon!
I do not know who the other 3 people are but I would bet that Edward Hitchens also has a bad case of the
"Tic Toc Tic Toc's" too As he is also 1 of the 5, I know that I am the 5th wheel  as I just barely made the boat
This is being followed up by the "Black Prince" with a custom extra fierce point influenced by Albion's awesome
Agincourt and the "Talhoffer" which was the sword I almost bought instead of the Black Prince! Wow, what a hard decision this was! It came down to the fact that all my longswords are Arms & Armor, so I wanted to match the set!
But the decision was so hard to make it took me 3 months to decide! Because I have handled both.
Anyway, I have been gawking at Arms & Armor's Edward III Sword for some years now and would consider no other version. In fact I almost had mine done in a custom hollow grind. But the words of Ewart Oakeshott on the Edward III Sword, changed my mind back to this version.
Who knows, maybe in a few years I will order the Edward III Sword in a hollow grind 
It would be big bucks, but then perhaps it would be the only investment of that particular year!
Sincerely,
Bob
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Glen A Cleeton
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| Posted: Fri 26 Jan, 2007 8:23 pm Post subject: |
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Having the opportunity to communicate directly and indirectly (via the boards) is another great plus for A&A.
Something else to consider is that A&A can build to suit. I believe it was Russ Ellis went with a bright steel version of this sword. In my collection is this blade from A&A in simpler fittings (Duke Of Urbino bronze). I don't know exactly when it was put together but unless the blade specs have changed a great deal, they make a terrific blade for cutting. I had put up some pictures and thoughts on mine at SFI.
http://forums.swordforum.com/showthread.php?t=70731
Just something to consider if one wanted to approach Craig for a project. As shown in that thread, mine is quite utilitarian but I do like it a lot.
The Windlass and Hanwei versions appear to be quite good, for what they are. They are certainly an opportunity to get the look and perhaps some of the performance of the premium offering.
Cheers
GC
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Chad Arnow
myArmoury Team
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| Posted: Fri 26 Jan, 2007 8:34 pm Post subject: |
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This thread is indeed fortuitous. My Edward III is at the A&A shop right now for a tweak or two and should benefit from the info here, too.
ChadA
http://chadarnow.com/
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Claire Bezzina
Location: Malta Joined: 24 Jan 2007
Posts: 2
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| Posted: Sat 27 Jan, 2007 3:30 am Post subject: |
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thank you for all of you who replied to my thread. I got some interesting replies. The only problem now is that probably since I'm from Malta, I will be charged a lot of money on taxes and customs since I will buy it from USA. Now I'm considering it buying it from countries within the European Union since I won't have to pay any additional taxes, but I've got only a few addresses.
thnx.
clr
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Russ Ellis
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Mon 29 Jan, 2007 7:01 am Post subject: |
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| Glen A Cleeton wrote: | Having the opportunity to communicate directly and indirectly (via the boards) is another great plus for A&A.
Something else to consider is that A&A can build to suit. I believe it was Russ Ellis went with a bright steel version of this sword. In my collection is this blade from A&A in simpler fittings (Duke Of Urbino bronze). I don't know exactly when it was put together but unless the blade specs have changed a great deal, they make a terrific blade for cutting. I had put up some pictures and thoughts on mine at SFI.
http://forums.swordforum.com/showthread.php?t=70731
Just something to consider if one wanted to approach Craig for a project. As shown in that thread, mine is quite utilitarian but I do like it a lot.
The Windlass and Hanwei versions appear to be quite good, for what they are. They are certainly an opportunity to get the look and perhaps some of the performance of the premium offering.
Cheers
GC |
It was indeed. It's not exactly faithful to the original, but makes a very pretty sword in my opinion. It also save me a little bit since there was none of that plating work...
TRITONWORKS Custom Scabbards
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