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Of course the Japanese ended up making their own. My comment about Portuguese imports applied only to the early stages before the smiths of Tanegashima learned the secrets of making firearms.

The truly large guns seem to have been a rarity in Japan, though--much more so than in Europe. I'd say they would have made up less than 5% of the firearms utilized in a given army (when they were used at all) whereas European armies sometimes had one-thirds of their men carrying the moschetto.
Lafayette C Curtis wrote:
Of course the Japanese ended up making their own. My comment about Portuguese imports applied only to the early stages before the smiths of Tanegashima learned the secrets of making firearms.

The truly large guns seem to have been a rarity in Japan, though--much more so than in Europe. I'd say they would have made up less than 5% of the firearms utilized in a given army (when they were used at all) whereas European armies sometimes had one-thirds of their men carrying the moschetto.


No problem, I was just under the impression that the Japanese were very quick to start making their own: Counted in years but not multiple decades. ( But essentially I think we are saying the same thing. )

Real canon of some imposing size don't seem to have been used much or at all by the Japanese.
( No large siege pieces or field artillery ? )

The larger ones shown on the web site I linked would be still " portable " in a wallgun sense I think and would be specialized weapons and not used by a large percentage of a force. ( 5% seems like a likely number but I have personnally no sources to back that up or dispute. )

Oh, and Merry Xmas. :D
Stephen Hand wrote:
Umm, M. That animation isn't right. That's how a serpentine works (minus the bizarre spring at the back - who knows where they got that from?!?).


what spring? I only see slowmatch.

Does any of you have images (painings or pics of originals at museums) of 15c matchlocks and serpenines (besides the 1411 pic)?

/Sommer
M. Sommer wrote:
Stephen Hand wrote:
Umm, M. That animation isn't right. That's how a serpentine works (minus the bizarre spring at the back - who knows where they got that from?!?).


what spring? I only see slowmatch.

Does any of you have images (painings or pics of originals at museums) of 15c matchlocks and serpenines (besides the 1411 pic)?

/Sommer


Yah, that slow match does look like some sort of coil spring or at least could be seen as one. :eek: :lol:

( Edited: Meaning that it IS a slow match and not a spring, not that I thought it was a spring ! But at a glance I see how it might seem like a spring ! )
That's what I was saying. The Japanese picked up the idea and the methods very quickly--but they didn't seem to have really cared to replicate the heavy moschetto in large quantities, perhaps finding it particularly impractical for the run-of-the-mill ashigaru.
I've seen in the new released game Medieval 2: total war some non-european factions with muskets, which are the turks and russians. Considering the time span of the game is 1060 to 1530, I could say that this game is historical accurate in this point?
How do they define "musket," anyway? I have a mind to buy M2:TW myself but I'll wait for the official release of the game because my Interent connection does not allow efficient download of the large demo files. I'd also like to wonder about when the player is first allowed to use the musket because, in the original M:TW, with enough money and management skills you could field modern arquebusiers of the late 15th-century type in the 1340s or 1340s.

That being said, if you're asking whether the Russians and the Ottomans had personal firearms before 1530, they certainly did. The Ottomans probably had musket-sized weapons too, but I'm not sure about the Russians. Does anybody here have good sources on the equipment of the streltsy?
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