[M. Eversberg II]

I was wondering if a historicly accurate suit of maille to any particular time period would be comprised of 100% flattened, riveted links, with or without sleves? I beleive the Norse had something like it, but only riveted the one connecting ring in the 4-1 pattern.

M.

[Dan Dickinson]

Well, if i get some of the details wrong feel free to correct me, but I believe that the 14th century was when maille commonly began to be completely riveted in Europe. Also, I'm not completely sure on when flattened links became popular, but wedge rivets began to be used in Germany in the late 12th and early 13th centuries. Generally flattened links went along with wedge rivets, so I'd assume that flattened links also began to be used in Germanic areas about the same time or a little later.
Hope this helps,
Dan

[M. Eversberg II]

Well, I'm trying to pick between a 13th or 14th century kit to collect first, and I'm wondering if it fits in either one.

To my understanding, most maille hauberks had long sleves that ended in mittens in the 13th century, but I'm more than absolutly sure there where exceptions to this.

M.

[Shawn Shaw]

[M. Eversberg II]

[Ed Toton]

I don't recall hearing about butted mail existing historically, but I'm not exactly an expert either. My understanding is that it was all rivet construction, just that in some times/places you may find every other row being constructed from solid rings (stamped or cut from sheet metal or something).

Again, not an expert.

[Shawn Henthorn]

No, the butted mail wasn't used in the middle ages. When we speak of partialy rivited maille It means that every other row was rivited and the rows inbetween were solid rings.
edit: crud!!! Ed beat me

[M. Eversberg II]

[Dan Dickinson]

Sorry if I caused confusion in my post, I was not implying that butted maille was used, but rather was assuming that the original poster was referring to mixed rows of riveted and solid (either welded or punched) rings (which was the predominate method before the 14th century) as the alternative to all riveted .
Sorry again for the confusion,
Dan

[M. Eversberg II]

So what happened in the 14th century? They reverted to all riveted?

My source has both flat and round rings at a good price, though I will have to de-zinc them (overnight in vinegar in a well vintelated area, I know what zinc can do to you) myself.

M.

[Nathan Robinson]

This has been discussed several times on the forum already and can be found by using the search function.

[M. Eversberg II]

This thread: http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t...lat+maille answered all my questions.

Thanks anyways,
M.

[Patrick Kelly]

For a norse byrnie like you've mentioned alternating rows of solid rings and round rivetted rings would be the most accurate representation. All flat-riveted rings would be more accurate for a late 14th-into the 15th century interp.

[Chuck Russell]

yup as patrick said.

we all jumped on teh band wagon a few years ago when flat rings came out. but the more it has been researched, most groups before the 1300s need round riveted rings alternating with flat solid rings. and most of those need to be around 6mm ID

sigh, i dont hav ehte cash to buy yet another mail shirt


one thing though, i havent found a round ring that i REALLY like. most round rings that are riveted look odd and i've heard the wearer usually has problems of being stuck periodically.


as to the butted mail issue. there have been a few pre viking- even pre roman finds that were classified as butted but were later found out to be rivetted. although i think there are a few iron age ceremonial helmets said to still have butted mail etc. but i'm not up on all of my current mail research. there has been a lot of good work done on this subject in the last 10 years. do a search for the mail research project etc

[Greyson Brown]

[Jeremy V. Krause]

Maille is the most difficult period arms & armor item to obtain a reasonably authentic modern reproduction of. All production efforts come up quite short in my opinion when compared to the authenticity. We are able to obtain much more authentic reproduction of things like swords, shields, polearms etc., although authentic shields are also a problem.

I have accepted that I will not own a maille hauberk because of these authenticity conserns. The enormous ammount of manual labor needed to make an authentic item makes it impractical unless one is willing to spend +$25,000. I love my hobby but that's just a bit over-budget.

jeremy

[Patrick Kelly]

[W. Schütz]

Maille is one of the least developed part of the living history attire, but there are some that get quite close. All flat-link rivited maille from late 15th century has some very accurate repros made by Erik D Schmidt.

15th century maille, and as you can see some repros comes quite close to this;


Repro sold by GDFB for example, isnt that far off;


And buttet maille where used sometimes in historical settings, ive seen some Turkish/Ottoman maille shirts that have like 3mm links all butted.

[Jeremy V. Krause]

Late 15th c. is one thing 11th-12th c. is another. GDFB and Forth Armoury do not seem to offer sufficient reproduction of these eras.

Jeremy

[W. Schütz]

No they do not, since 12th cen maille is harder to get right i think, less originals to go from, more different styles. Some early medieval mailleshirts include three differenct styles of links, and that will ofcourse be harder to reproduce accuratly. If you want well made maille from the 12th cen you better turn to Erik Schmidt, he will know.