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Lafayette C Curtis
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 Posted: Thu 14 Dec, 2006 7:49 am Post subject: Leaf-bladed swords in history? |
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Ladies and gentlemen,
I'm wondering if any of you could point me out to the use of leaf-bladed sword designs in history? I heard that some Iron Age Celtic blades had this design, but I haven't been able to locate a photograph or first-hand sketch of a historical example for such a blade. I'd appreciate any pointers on this.
I know my motivation is not pure--one of my gamer friends have asked me to sketch a fantasy sword design for his character--and as usual I want to start from a historical model because I don't want to design a sword with a shitty balance even if it's just a fantasy design that will never go on to become a real steel weapon.
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Martin Wallgren
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| Posted: Thu 14 Dec, 2006 9:06 am Post subject: |
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How about the earlier Gladii in use of the Roman Republic and later in the early empire?
Swordsman, Archer and Dad
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Lafayette C Curtis
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| Posted: Thu 14 Dec, 2006 9:17 am Post subject: |
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Well, perhaps. Do you happen to know any sites that provide details about their blade geometry and such?
Incidentally, Geoff Wood has referred me to this page on reproduction Bronze Age swords: http://www.templeresearch.eclipse.co.uk/bronz...r_sale.htm
It reminds me of the leaf-bladed swords illustrated in Oakeshott's Archaeology of Weapons, and maybe I can borrow some data from them--although the characteristics of bronze swords will inevitably be somewhat different from iron ones.
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Martin Wallgren
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David Wilson
Location: In a van down by the river Joined: 23 Aug 2003
Posts: 803
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| Posted: Thu 14 Dec, 2006 10:14 am Post subject: |
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Actually, by the Iron Age, the Celts seemed to have abandoned the Leaf-shape, for the most part, for the more parallel-edged (and longer) La Tene-era swords. Leaf-blades were much more common during the Bronze age.
There were a few "leafy" bladed swords during the Iron age. The Greek double-edged "Hoplite" Xiphos has an elongated leaf shape. The Roman "Mainz"-pattern gladius could be considered leafy. On the other hand, the Roman military dagger, the Pugio, had a very leafy-shaped blade (but it's not really a sword....).... but that's about it, as far as I'm aware....
.... unless you consider some later African swords, like the Masai semee (sp?)....
David K. Wilson, Jr.
Laird of Glencoe
Now available on Amazon: Franklin Posner's "Suburban Vampire: A Tale of the Human Condition -- With Vampires" https://www.amazon.com/dp/B072N7Y591
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Jean Henri Chandler
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| Posted: Thu 14 Dec, 2006 10:33 am Post subject: |
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Ok this is my third try ... keep getting pages lost. So I'll cut the commentary
This site has very accurate replicas of Bronze Hallstadt / Urnfield swords
http://www.templeresearch.eclipse.co.uk/bronz...r_sale.htm
Here is a Greek Bronze age sword
The Greeks later evolved these types into an Iron verson called the Xiphos
Dont forget the elegant Moro Barong
Hope that helps
J
Books and games on Medieval Europe Codex Integrum
Codex Guide to the Medieval Baltic Now available in print
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Jeroen Zuiderwijk
Industry Professional
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Nathan Robinson
myArmoury Admin
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Jean Henri Chandler
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| Posted: Fri 15 Dec, 2006 7:32 am Post subject: |
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Great stuf Jeroen, thanks for posting that!
Jean
Books and games on Medieval Europe Codex Integrum
Codex Guide to the Medieval Baltic Now available in print
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Lafayette C Curtis
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| Posted: Fri 15 Dec, 2006 8:43 am Post subject: |
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Hm. Those are certainly interesting pictures.
BTW, Jeroen, since you've cast the blades yourself, could you give some observations about the saliet points of blade geometry? Like whether the blade has to be thicker at the narrow waist, but much flatter at the broadest part of the blade (where, I presume, the point of percussion lies)?
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Jeroen Zuiderwijk
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Fri 15 Dec, 2006 10:22 am Post subject: |
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| Lafayette C Curtis wrote: | Hm. Those are certainly interesting pictures.
BTW, Jeroen, since you've cast the blades yourself, could you give some observations about the saliet points of blade geometry? Like whether the blade has to be thicker at the narrow waist, but much flatter at the broadest part of the blade (where, I presume, the point of percussion lies)? |
Well, I did not cast the blades (most of which are Neil Burridge's blades as I mentioned), but I do have a pretty good understanding of the blade geometry. The cross-section of the blade tends to stay pretty much constant, or decreases slighly up to the widest point of the blade, then decreases further down the tip. At the same time, the thickness of the blade decreases fairly linear from the hilt towards the tip. The exception is with swords where there is a more pronounced midrib (which is more common). The balance on these would be pretty much identical, but some of the material behind the edge is "moved" to the midrib, to increase the thickness (and thus making the blade both sharper and more resistant to bending). The result of this is that the POB is pretty much at the same location compared to a straight edged blade, which has a constant thickness up to the point where the blade starts narrowing.
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This is a standard topic
