[Nathan Robinson]

Hello everyone.

Up for discussion is an image from the Luttrell Psalter, found at the British Museum. This work was produced in England (East Anglia), circa 1325-1335.

Here is the portion of the image that interests me:



It's a detailed version of folio f.56, found in the lower margin of the full page. It shows Thomas, Earl of Lancaster, kneeling before an executioner. The sword is raised and the deed is about to be done.

What strikes me of interest about this piece is that the sword, having a rounded point and lacking any real tip, appears to be a standard form for an executioner's sword. But what is odd, to me, is that the man wielding it has a scabbard for the piece. I've not seen an executioner's sword with scabbard before. Knowing how ornate many of such swords are engraved/etched with scenes of justice and whatnot, one would think that the scabbard would allow for further embellishment and, simply put, be an additional canvas for such art.

(Scabbard makers, take note of the triangular flap at the mouth of the scabbard...)

Additionally, I find it very interesting to see the sword suspended by an over-the-shoulder baldric arrangement. This artwork is dated circa 1325-1335 and so the depicted scene would have been sometime around, or before, that time period. I'm curious as to the popularity and use of such a sword suspension for that period of time.

What I'd like is:

1) Any additional references, photos, or other forms of imagery showing scabbards for executioner's swords

2) Any additional references, photos, or other forms of imagery showing over-the-shoulder sword suspension systems for swords (any swords, not just executioner's) in the 1250-1350 range.

Thank you.

(here is the full image for reference)

[Ville Vinje]

Here is an over-the-shoulder sword suspension and some nice bucklers.

I had to cut the pic a bit to fit it in but the whole scene is attached at the bottom.

This is not really my cup of tea (no really I'm a viking, I don't drink tea, I drink MEAD), but I hope this at least resembles what you are looking for.

Manuscript #47682, the "HOLKHAM BIBLE PICTURE BOOK" circ. 1327-1335.
The "Battle of Berwick"

[Glen A Cleeton]

Although from some centuries later, here is a Hungarian headsman's sword and scabbard. I have not tried enlarging the scabbard shot for more detail.

http://www.collectorsfirearms.com/admin/produ...temID=1884

Cheers

GC

[Blaz Berlec]

Sword on Luttrell Psalter miniature doesn't seem like a "standard executioner's sword" to me - it looks more like a standard drawing of a cutting sword (X or XI by Oakeshott). They're usually drawn like that (with very spatulate tips), even if their real life counterparts were a bit more pointy. Maybe artists exaggerated their cutting or slashing abilities by drawing such a rounded tips.

Over-the-shoulder sword suspension, a bit early for your date range. The baptismal font is to be found in the 'Eglise Saint Bartélemy' (Saint Bartholomew) of Liège, it's a work of Renier, goldsmith of the city of Huy during the first half of the 12th century. Photos by me.





Edit - it just occured to me that the over-the-shoulder belt might be carrying belt of a shield. It almost certainly is.

I have also seen an executioner's sword with a scabbard in local museum of Celje, Slovenia in their temporary arms exhibition. I don't remember the details, sword was a typical broad bladed 16th or 17th century executioner sword with a small inlaid cross in circle, scabbard was very crudely made (leather was simply glued on, and the chape was very flimsy). [/img]

[J. Bedell]

Hey,
If you look at the second picture Blaz posted it looks as if the sword protrudes through the garment (is he wearing a hauberk?). Is this an artists misinterpretation or was this a popular fashion? I have never seen this before but I guess it would be easy to have a slit in your tunic or hauberk through which the sword could protrude if it was belted under the garment. Any thoughts? Does anyone know if this was common?

-James

[Blaz Berlec]

It seems that this was quite common in 12th and 13th century, and sometimes even later (scabbards beneath jupons or gambesons).

Here's a discussion on Armour Archive. There was much more about that on Arador Armour forums, but it vanished with all the rest...


http://forums.armourarchive.org/phpBB2/viewto...highlight=

[Randall Moffett]

I agree that the sword likely is a normal cutting sword and just does not have a well defined tip drawn.

As for the scabbard suspention system. I have seen other 14th century examples but could not find any besides the one in the Holkham bible. In fact this one in the Luttel Psalter I had not noticed (which is said as I looked through it in good detail 8 months ago).

RPM