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Thomas Watt
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 Posted: Thu 16 Nov, 2006 3:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Jeff Pringle wrote: | snip...
- Leaf through “Swords of the Viking Age” and look only at the crossguards – many project farther on one side of the blade than the other – there was a different concept of the value of symmetry going on (yes, some of them probably shifted in the last thousand years of burial, but not all).
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Funny you should bring that up...
I just finished working on a design for an 8th-9th Century Viking pommel in Adobe Illustrator, which makes mirroring the two sides in perfect symmetry very easy. By looking at the original Viking example, it does not appear to be drastically "off" - that is, it looks very nice, and does look way out of whack. But overlaid with the Illustrator line art based on it, the original is way off.
I agree with you that the historical folks had different concerns, but a part of me also wonders if modern tools had been available to them what the result would be. Sorry for the speculation, as it drifts away from the topic a little... but I think the point folks are making is it's about the blade having "heart" and the maker getting the feel for it rather than just machining something with all perfect lines (e.g.: "ginsu" swords).
Have 11 swords, 2 dirks, half a dozen tomahawks and 2 Jeeps - seem to be a magnet for more of all.
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Jeff Pringle
Industry Professional
Location: Oakland, CA Joined: 19 Nov 2005
Posts: 145
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| Posted: Fri 17 Nov, 2006 7:34 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | On the viking hilts, I've noticed a similar point with the pommels on a number of museum exhibits |
Yes, I find the assymetries of the lobed pommels especially interesting - I used the crossguards as an example because it's so obvious, but the pommels are more telling as they are less likely to have been bent or shifted in use or burial. The sword having a preferred edge could account for some offset (maybe  ), and I can easily imagine a maker installling an offset pommel on a single edged blade, but there are internal assymetries as well, which I think are clues to the way the world looked before standardized measuring systems, parrallel lines and right angles everywhere.
| Quote: | | it's about the blade having "heart" and the maker getting the feel for it rather than just machining something with all perfect lines |
Indeed, or at least putting a lot of heart into the perfect lines. Since we know from the start of this thread that machines can give you imperfect lines, too. I don't think speculation about what they would have done with modern tooling is really off topic, since one fundamental issue here is the difference between the medieval eye & the modern one, on both the maker's and the user's end. If Mr. Early Smith had a CNC mill, would his finished blades/hilts have been any different if nothing else had changed? I suspect not, if you could separate a CNC mill from the entire industrial society and world view that created it. We can't really look at a sword with a medieval eye, either, but I think it's good to know there is a difference.
When people complain that their reproductions look like reproductions, are they being unreasonable? Is it because the sword was made with modern eyes, or is being looked at with modern eyes (or maybe it just does not have enough patina  )?
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Stephen D. Sharp
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| Posted: Fri 17 Nov, 2006 1:46 pm Post subject: |
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I seldom have time to read 'all' the pages of any one thread but, having said that, in reading Peter J's philosophy, I agree with Peter.
He has, as I have seen in this forum several times, 'hit the nail on the head'. I am a machinist and have actually built 'space ships'. Or, should I say been involved in their building as a machinist. I have been involved in many areas from amusement park rides, to military weapons, to aerospace and 'space ships' (comm. and DOD 'top secret' satellite stuff and even nuclear submarines etc). I am a pathetically focused perfectionist BUT, when it comes to my photography and other artistice efforts, my brain 'shifts gears' dramatically. Peter, your efforts are 'right on'.
Being what several people close to me have commented, I am a 'right-brained 'A'-type. Yeah, WHEW! But, from my experience and philosophy, Peter has got it figured out. I love Albion's sword for that reason. I could see it in the first sword I purchased (the Laird). I can hardly wait to pay for and receive that Chieftain that I have on deposit! I 'know' that we could make swords so perfect that you'd pass out seeing one BUT, the cost would be in the tens of thousands and you'd only get ONE. Then, it really wouldn't be a 'sword'. If your life depended on it, would you 'really' care if the fuller was off 1mm??? Afterall, that is what a sword was/is for. Except for us, we are enthusiasts and collectors, our lives may never depend on a sword.
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Stephen D. Sharp
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| Posted: Fri 17 Nov, 2006 1:55 pm Post subject: |
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Also, let me add. I have worked in situations where I had to hold plus or minus 0.0001"
In a properly controlled environment, it CAN be done BUT, slight humidity and temperature changes wreak havoc!
Thus, in the space industry, all that is taken into account. And, the dim.s and tolerances reflect the environment 'as it will be'. Not how it 'is'.
That's not what we want in a sword!!!
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