[S. Aeppli]

Hello,
I am a "Newbie" of the lowest rank and am putting together a kit I hope will approximate 14th CE Ottoman armor. I've done some reading and lots of websurfing to locate a shamsir/saif and it appears as though the two companies I mention have the best 2 choices for a sword in my budget range. They both appear very very close in construction and weight. Has anyone tried both of these in a sparring or heavy exercise session and care to give feedback. Or if anyone has a suggestion for an alternative sword I'm open to suggestion. I see beautiful wootz steel reproductions from custom forges but I'm far from that point as yet.
Thank you

[Nathan Robinson]

Which specific products are you comparing? What are the names of these products that the makers actually use?

Are you referring to the Windlass "Scimitar" and the Cold Steel "Shamshir"?

If so, please note that MRL lists the Windlass "Scimitar" at circa 1700 -- which is a far cry from the 14th century.

[S. Aeppli]

Uhhh Nathan I thought the question was clear...I men you figured it out
Both companies refer to the swords as alternatly scimitars or shamsirs in advertising copy. Although I'm a newbie I'm not an idiot and am aware of the 300 year difference your referring to. I didn't find your reply helpful at all thank you.

[Nathan Robinson]

[Grayson C.]

[Chad Arnow]

[Richard Fay]

Hello all!

How much difference is there now between the Cold Steel and the MRL scimitars/shamshirs since Windlass took over Cold Steel? Just wondering, I have not seen either in person, so I can't comment on the differences. I would love to know how different these two swords are.

By the way, I've always found Nathan to be great to deal with. He certainly doesn't deserve any sort of rudeness. (I know he is certainly capable of dealing with it, but I wanted to voice my opinion in support of someone that I've always found to be gracious and friendly.) I joined this forum because he runs a "tight ship"; I was impressed with the site's content and it's focus, and the lack of "flaming" and other negative aspects of other forums. In my opinion, he runs one of the best web sites on the internet, and I can attest to the fact that he put his all into the content.

Sorry, guys, if this was straying into "moderator" territory, but I felt I had to speak my mind regarding this issue. I know you all do a fantastic job of patrolling this site.

Stay safe!

[Patrick Kelly]

I haven't handled either sword but I have handled a range of products from both companies. Based on that experience I'd go with the Windlass made sword. I've been completely unimpressed by most of the swords I've handled that are sold by Cold Steel. (sold-by as they don't make them as with many of their knives) They offer too little quality at a price that is higher than jusitified.

Someone should feel very fortunate that I no longer moderate this place.

[Jim Venable]

[Chad Arnow]

Commenting on or discussing moderating and moderators (positive or negative) is usually not encouraged on the forums. This is not because we feel we shouldn't be questioned. It's more simple:

Moderating and discussions about it are off-topic to the thread at hand and to the site's purpose.

If you have comments, questions, concerns, or compliments, please contact us directly with them. Other discussion is simply distracting and off-topic, however well-intentioned.

[Scott Hanson]

Sorry to be off-topic here, but I am curious: Richard, are you certain that Windlass took over Cold Steel? I wouldn't be surprised if they're doing all of the sword production for them, as Cold Steel has long had other companies producing their swords. I would be surprised at a complete takeover. Also, checking both companies sites briefly doesn't seem to indicate a takeover, particularly as Windlass has a list of companies in the "Windlass Group" and Cold Steel isn't in it.

As far as Cold Steel vs. Windlass in general, I would have to say it's a toss-up. I own the Cold Steel Grossemesser, after having had much success with their knives. The sword is certainly tough, but it has no distal taper and wields more like a sledgehammer than a sword. I don't own any Windlass swords, but I have had a chance to examine several of them owned by others, and I was unimpressed by the fit and finish of any of them. I know that probably is not very helpful, but it's the best I can offer. My personal advice would be to avoid both and purchase a custom sword, if you can't find a production one to your liking.

[Richard Fay]

Hello all!

Scott,
I guess it's more appropriate to say: "rumour has it that Windlass has taken over Cold Steel". MRL is now carrying the Cold Steel katanas, and I've heard that the Cold Steel hand-and-a-half's handling characteristics have changed recently. There might be some information about this issue elsewhere on these forums; do a search for Cold Steel and see what you come up with.

Fit and finish have been a problem with WIndlass swords over the years, but they have made improvements. Again, a lot of this has already been discussed. However, I can give you my personal impressions. I bought a generic Medieval Sword from MRL just after they switched to Windlass swords. It was point-heavy, with a chunky grip, and a poorly executed cross and pommel. There was no notch for the shoulders of the blade, only a small hole for the tang. I took it apart one day, and found that the threaded rod that held the pommel on was just welded on to the end of the tang. I tried to modify it, but messed it up so bad that it ended up buried in my backyard! (I'm an author, artist, and even a bit of a leather armourer, but I'm no metal worker or sword smith!) The more recent MRL swords are better; they have a notch for the shoulders of the blade, even if it is sometimes overlarge. They did an especially nice job on the Arbedo and the Towton (again, there has been a lot of talk about these swords on this site). The Arbedo I have is very tight, with little space between the groove in the cross and the blade, and a fairly sturdy (if not overly pretty) peening. Too bad they discontinued that model.

I can't comment specifically about the Windlass scimitar/shamshir, but if it is like some of their better models, you'll get an okay product for the price. It won't handle just like the originals, but it won't break your wrist either! (I'm only talking in general terms here; if it's a poorly made model, it could handle very badly!) Unfortunately, quality can vary with Windlass products. I would recommend buying from some place that examines each individual sword, and that has a decent return policy.

I hope this helped!

Stay safe!

[Thomas Watt]

As someone with a couple of Cold Steel blades in my pile of steel (Scottish Broadsword, Hand-and-a-Half Sword) I will add my opinion based on holding and handling these blades... they tend to "feel" a little heavy or sluggish in hand. And I would not pay list for them (I didn't), but they are available at significant discounts among some dealers (I'll bet this has all been said before elsewhere on the site, and if so forgive me).

At discounted prices, they make a fine enough blade. But it is not a hand-made, "special" sword. As a mass manufactured article, it holds up well, and doesn't seem to fall apart in hand. Keep in mind I don't spar anymore, so aside from making a few whacks, mine have not seen heavy use.

The Cold Steel Shamshir may or may not accurately reflect an historic blade, I do not know. But I know the ones I own are a little off to the side of being historical. Just my experience.

[Christopher Finneman]

Just my two cents here.
My friend has the scimitar from windlass. She likes it but the grip is something to be proud of where that wood ball at the end is broke off after a little test cutting. But other than that its seems to do its job good not a great cutter but more of a slashing blade as what its intended for.
Just my two cents
Christopher

[Jean Henri Chandler]

At the risk of incurring the wrath of some of the more experienced sword collectors here, I would like to (respectfully) play devils advocate a bit.

First let me stipulate that I agree with the stated criticisms of the Cold Steel swords; they tend to be too heavy by a good 25%-50%, are made without distal taper and they generally lack that 'live' feel that a real sword or a good replica can have in the hand. More or less what you might expect from a knife maker without a lot of real experience or understanding of swords, particularly western swords.

However, in their defense, cold steel weapons seem to be very sturdy, and the ones I have handled are good cutters.

Windlass swords are indeed more accurate looking, (the cold steel viking sword doesn't even have a proper fuller for example!) and have a much higher asthetic appeal, but another big difference between a windlass sword and a cold steel is that of durability. I know of many, many instances of windlass weapons snapping at the tang and elsewhere, which would tend to give me pause when considering doing some test-cutting, or even a vigorous flourish. I have seen two MRL / Windlass swords snap and from WMA groups I have been in contact with I know of dozens more which have broken. I keep hearing that they have improved but this seems to be intermittent (?) Other folks on this forum can clear that up.

Cold Steel weapons were also of course overpriced but you can get them on Ebay these days I notice for nearly half what they were originally selling for.

Ultimately, in the price range of under $300, you are going to make a pretty hefty compromise in any sword you buy. Even the best manufacturered replicas still fall short of the real thing in my opinion, but in that price range you are going to be faced wtih something which either looks funny, feels funny, handles funny or breaks very easily, or all four. So you have to think about what you want to use the 'weapon' for. If you want to chop things up in your back yard, especially anything harder than a water bottle or a pool noodle, you very well might want to consider Cold Steel.

if you want a weapon for display and a little light flourishing, an MRL may be a better idea.

For sparring and / or heavy practice I think the paul chen practicals are the best blunts for the price (incredibly cheap in the range of $80-$200), and I've also heard good things about those aluminum wasters some companies are making . For a little bit more ($350-$400) albion has their "Squire" line which are probably quite good, I'm thinking of getting one of these for my next purchase.

For serious cutting I'd save a bit more and get an Albion Next Gen or an Angus Trim.

just my $.02

Jean

P.S. I guess cold seel won a small place in my heart due to that "sword proof" video they distribute, which I show excerpts from to my friends to demonstrate that western style 'swords' can cut things rather impressively just like katanas can...