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Patrick Kelly
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 Posted: Sun 08 Oct, 2006 4:02 pm Post subject: Gregs second scabbard. |
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A couple of days ago Greg finished the scabbard for my Albion Reeve and I thought I'd share a few photos.
I originally chose a dark chocolate brown for the belt and a lighter "english tan" for the scabbard. The scabbard turned out darker than either Greg or I expected, more of a russet than a tan color. Still, it was a very attractive combination we were both very pleased with. Unfortunately disaster struck when I got the thing home. The belt was pretty stiff so I boned it to soften it up and then applied a bit of neatsfoot oil. I've done this before without any negative results but this time was different. Everything seemed dry a few hours later so I wrapped the belt around the scabbard and went to bed. When I checked it the next morning there were dark stripe-like splotches on the face of the scabbard which pretty well ruined the look, so I was forced to dye it the same chocolate brown as the belt. It's still a nice piece of work though. A scabbard was the last major piece of gear I needed for my 11th century kit and I'm very grateful to Greg for making it for me.
The fittings were purchased from Raymonds Quiet Press: www.quietpress.com
They aren't Norman but rather more Saxon or nordic. However, swords like the Reeve were common from the mid-tenth to mid-twelfth centuries so they're plausible for the period. Besides, they look sexy.  The lighting makes the scabbard appear a bit thick and blockish but in fact it's quite thin and flat. If Greg can do this with his second attempt I'm eager to see what he'll be doing by his tenth or twentieth.
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Max von Bargen
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| Posted: Sun 08 Oct, 2006 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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WOW! Nice scabbard! Congratulations on a fine acquisition, and congratulations to Greg for producing such an awesome piece of work.
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J. Bedell
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| Posted: Sun 08 Oct, 2006 5:01 pm Post subject: |
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Wow, that's stunning. You've got a nice scabbard there, congrats. Is it a dark red or more of a purple? It is hard for me to tell from the photos.
-James
The pen may be mighter, but the sword is much more fun.
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Patrick Kelly
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| Posted: Sun 08 Oct, 2006 5:08 pm Post subject: |
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| J. Bedell wrote: | Wow, that's stunning. You've got a nice scabbard there, congrats. Is it a dark red or more of a purple? It is hard for me to tell from the photos.
-James |
Thanks, it's explained in the text. The scabbard does have a bit of a red tint due to the underlying original dye.
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J. Bedell
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| Posted: Sun 08 Oct, 2006 5:13 pm Post subject: |
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Oh, sorry about that I missed it the first time. That's very nice, I'm very jealous of that scabbard! It's amazing what Greg can do when it's only his second scabbard!
-James
The pen may be mighter, but the sword is much more fun.
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Richard Fay
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| Posted: Sun 08 Oct, 2006 6:19 pm Post subject: |
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Patrick,
A beautiful scabbard for a beautiful sword!
I prefer the later locket suspension system (I wish I had one, but I do describe one worn by the main character in my novel), but I always thought the more complex earlier belt attachment system had a "rough-and-tumble warrior" look about it.
Especially nice buckle, belt end, and chape!
"I'm going to do what the warriors of old did! I'm going to recite poetry!"
Prince Andrew of Armar
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Jean Thibodeau
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| Posted: Sun 08 Oct, 2006 6:54 pm Post subject: |
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Patrick, my compliments to Greg for some really fine " professional " work even more impressive considering that he only started making scabbards recently: Talk about starting almost at the top of the learning curve.   ( IMPRESSIVE )
You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Patrick Kelly
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| Posted: Sun 08 Oct, 2006 8:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Richard Fay wrote: | Patrick,
A beautiful scabbard for a beautiful sword!
I prefer the later locket suspension system (I wish I had one, but I do describe one worn by the main character in my novel), but I always thought the more complex earlier belt attachment system had a "rough-and-tumble warrior" look about it.
Especially nice buckle, belt end, and chape! |
Thank you Richard. More complex? I suppose it's how you look at it. The fact that a separate metal locket has to be fashioned might make the later method more complex, in a way. My main period of interest is the 11th century so this integral belt system has always been something of a standard for me.
Raymond does a good job of casting his fittings and at a very affordable price. The same chape from any other vendor runs $40-$60, Raymond charges $16.95. I've always loved that particular strap end. It really belongs on a migration era or early viking age scabbard but I was happy to have this chance to use it.
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Patrick Kelly
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| Posted: Sun 08 Oct, 2006 8:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Jean Thibodeau wrote: | | Patrick, my compliments to Greg for some really fine " professional " work even more impressive considering that he only started making scabbards recently: Talk about starting almost at the top of the learning curve. ( IMPRESSIVE ) |
I agree. I've been very impressed by his first two efforts. Greg's a very modest man, that's why he hangs around with me as I make up for it. I've repeatedly told him he has an impressive talent but I don't know if he's buying it yet. If he decides to make a business of it I'm sure others will buy it.
As always, the photos don't do the scabbard justice.
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George Hill
Location: Atlanta Ga Joined: 16 May 2005
Posts: 614
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| Posted: Sun 08 Oct, 2006 10:57 pm Post subject: |
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A lovely peice. How does it feel when you buckle it on?
To abandon your shield is the basest of crimes. - --Tacitus on Germania
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Peter Johnsson
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Sun 08 Oct, 2006 11:28 pm Post subject: |
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Hey Patrick,
That is good work!
Glad to see Greg´s obvious skill and feeling for this.
Looking forward to the completion of the next project, whatever that ight be 
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Patrick Kelly
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| Posted: Mon 09 Oct, 2006 5:14 am Post subject: |
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| George Hill wrote: | | A lovely peice. How does it feel when you buckle it on? |
Thanks. It feels like a scabbard at your side. It hangs at a comfortable angle and since the Reeve is not a terribly heavy sword it's quite comfortable, if that's what you're asking.
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Patrick Kelly
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| Posted: Mon 09 Oct, 2006 5:25 am Post subject: |
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| Peter Johnsson wrote: | Hey Patrick,
That is good work!
Glad to see Greg´s obvious skill and feeling for this.
Looking forward to the completion of the next project, whatever that ight be |
Hello Peter!
That's high praise coming from you. Hopefully Greg will chime in with some opinions.
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Jeff Pringle
Industry Professional
Location: Oakland, CA Joined: 19 Nov 2005
Posts: 145
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| Posted: Mon 09 Oct, 2006 7:27 am Post subject: |
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That's a great scabbard, it really suits the blade. The overdye looks great, too - do you think the fresh oil carried over some of the belt pigment, is that what happened?
Richard - Lockets aren't necessarily late, either - or did you mean you prefer the later style?
They can be early, too.
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Greg Griggs
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| Posted: Mon 09 Oct, 2006 7:37 am Post subject: |
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Thanks to everyone for the compliments. They are greatly appreciated! I had fun making this scabbard and tried a few things differently than the first one. Needless to say, it was a good learning experience. 
I want to especially thank Peter for his kind words, as I consider him one of the best in his field and if anyone would know if it was done "right", it would be him. I have found that getting it right isn't just the mechanics of making a good fit or a perfectly sewn seam, but also how every part of the scabbard/belt comes together for the proper feel of the blade sheathed within it's confines. The next project will be a wee bit different as I'm planning on doing a latter (14th C) scabbard for the Gallowglass when/if it shows up. Already kicking ideas around in my head for artwork, design, and suspension. Special thanks also for my good friend Patrick - yeah, he's pushy, opinionated, and has a big head but other than that, he's the tops!  (Joking of course) Seriously, PK has been overly kind with his words and a great believer in my talents, or lack thereof, HA! Be well all.
-Greg
Not one shred of evidence supports the notion that life is serious.
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Richard Fay
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| Posted: Mon 09 Oct, 2006 8:18 am Post subject: |
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| Patrick Kelly wrote: |
Thank you Richard. More complex? I suppose it's how you look at it. |
Patrick,
I meant the earlier "split belt" suspension looked more "busy" (not in a bad way). The locket suspension system looks "cleaner" to my artist's eyes. (Did you take a look at my artwork by any chance? I thought you might appreciate my "William the Conqueror"!)
I am no metal worker; hacking out plates for a coat-of-plates from sheet metal with a reciprocating saw is as good as my metal working skills get. Trying to make a locket suspension would be a complex project for me to attempt. I've worked a bit with leather, so if I was to make one, I would opt for the "earlier" suspension system.
If I ever do get around to making a belt and scabbard for my "cheapies", I think I would start by trying to make a belt attachment similar to that on scabbard for the Sancho IV sword (plate 7 in The Sword in the Age of Chivalry, and XII. 7 in Records of the Medieval Sword.) I think that looks like a "simple" project for a beginner scabbard and belt maker. And the date would fit with the "Drac", at least.
| Jeff Pringle wrote: |
Richard - Lockets aren't necessarily late, either - or did you mean you prefer the later style?
They can be early, too. |
Jeff,
I was speaking in general. In the period of Patrick's kit, the "split belt" suspension system would probably have been common. I prefer the look (purely on an artistic level) of the system using double lockets. Oakeshott seemed to think that the double locket system on medieval swords was typical of the period 1330-1340. He does show one sword scabbard with a double locket system dated to before 1319. He dates XV. 6, the sword found in the Thames with it's lockets, before 1330. In the entry in Records of the Medieval Sword for that sword, he states that that particular type of double locket suspension was fashionable, based on representations in art, from about 1320 to 1340.
Sorry if I wasn't clear about what I meant by "early" and "later".
Enough about me and historical belt suspensions; this is Patrick's thread!
Again, nice scabbard, Patrick!
Nice work, Greg!
Stay safe!
"I'm going to do what the warriors of old did! I'm going to recite poetry!"
Prince Andrew of Armar
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Patrick Kelly
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| Posted: Mon 09 Oct, 2006 9:23 am Post subject: |
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| Richard wrote: | | I meant the earlier "split belt" suspension looked more "busy" (not in a bad way). The locket suspension system looks "cleaner" to my artist's eyes. (Did you take a look at my artwork by any chance? I thought you might appreciate my "William the Conqueror"!) |
Thanks for clarifying. I agree that "busy" is a good word for the earlier system when comparing them. I don't really have a preference myself, it really depends on the period being represented.
Where can I find a link to your artwork? I don't see one in your profile and I'd like to check it out.
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Chad Arnow
myArmoury Team
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Richard Fay
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| Posted: Mon 09 Oct, 2006 9:38 am Post subject: |
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| Chad Arnow wrote: |
Here's some of what he's done |
Thanks, Chad! This is the first place my artwork has ever been shown on-line.
| Patrick Kelly wrote: |
I don't really have a preference myself, it really depends on the period being represented.
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Absolutely! The historian in me would want the system to fit the time period. I was just speaking from an artist's perspective. And, my "alter ego"  (the main character in my novel awaiting an offer for publication) wears a double-locket suspension system for his sword scabbard!
Stay safe!
"I'm going to do what the warriors of old did! I'm going to recite poetry!"
Prince Andrew of Armar
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Bob Burns
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| Posted: Mon 09 Oct, 2006 10:21 am Post subject: |
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For Scabbard and Belt # 2 that is really something Greg. Sure looks very well done to me! More than a little impressive if you ask me, to be able to do something like this by the 2nd attempt.
Bob
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This is a standard topic