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Sean Belair
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Joined: 08 Aug 2006

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PostPosted: Sat 09 Sep, 2006 1:52 pm    Post subject: making a scabbard chape         Reply with quote

does anyone know how our ancestors made scabbard chapes.
#1 was the chape made of a single peace of thin mettle hammered into the perfect shape, single peace bent around the scabbard sealed at the back or two separate peaces like is often done today?

#2 how was the edges of the chape secured together (two peaces or one bent around), was it hammer forged together?

#3 how was the chape secured to the scabbard (glue, friction)?

if their is anything i'm forgetting to ask please put it in

thanks
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Shane Allee
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Location: South Bend, IN
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PostPosted: Sat 09 Sep, 2006 2:05 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

When and where makes for a big difference in the answer.

Shane
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Sean Belair
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PostPosted: Sat 09 Sep, 2006 2:58 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

should have clarafied that, vicking piriod through the high middle ages
if there are any diforences during thist vast amount of time i would like to know
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Jeff Pringle
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Location: Oakland, CA
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PostPosted: Sat 09 Sep, 2006 8:08 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Lost wax casting, near as I can tell, if you're talking 'bout these ubiquitous Viking ones:


The nose on the upper animal head is turned in on these, so the chape has a built-in staple effect to hold it on.
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Merv Cannon




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PostPosted: Sat 09 Sep, 2006 9:02 pm    Post subject: Chapes         Reply with quote

Hi.............Well, its the same for many items in the past.......there are many answers. I belirve that the Vilings and other migration period groups were into casting these and other fittings but there is no single way, generally speaking. Some chapes were formed over stakes from sheet stock some were cast They were sometomes left plain or the edges were filed with a pattern or they were pierced or tooled or repoussed. Some were in steel or brass-bronze or copper. They were then either glued and/or pinned on. Some of the sheet chapes were joined with a brazed seam up the back, others were left un-joined. Other designs simply wrapped around the edge like a big letter " U " or a "V ". Certinally all of these were being done concurrently. It also depended if the item was for a footsoldier or a Baron who might have also had his gilded ! Craftsmen worked according to the available materials and tools and often had their own way of doing things according to the way they had been taught. Besides, uniformity came in slowly........if you look at some of the weapons in the Graz Zeughaus you can see uniformity... http://dspace.anu.edu.au/handle/1885/5052 ....nobles would order so many thousand weapons according to the current pattern but they were not all made by the same arms maker and the order was spread out over several makers. So they all end up very similar buy there would be slight differences. We dont see total uniformity untill machine mass production came in to effect.
Merv ....... KOLR
http://www.lionrampant.com.au/

"Then let slip the dogs of war ! "......Woof !
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Bruno Giordan





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PostPosted: Sun 10 Sep, 2006 1:11 am    Post subject: Re: making a scabbard chape         Reply with quote

Sean Belair wrote:
does anyone know how our ancestors made scabbard chapes.
#1 was the chape made of a single peace of thin mettle hammered into the perfect shape, single peace bent around the scabbard sealed at the back or two separate peaces like is often done today?

#2 how was the edges of the chape secured together (two peaces or one bent around), was it hammer forged together?

#3 how was the chape secured to the scabbard (glue, friction)?

if their is anything i'm forgetting to ask please put it in

thanks


You should ask archeologists for such questions.

Simply make a search for your period of interest in google, restricting search to the .edu domain.

You could contact some university specialist by email.

You will get a lot of "it is not my field, sorry" answers, but a few will direct you towards interesting documents.

Focusing on a precise period is a must, as said by others.

I would contact british archeologists on an issue like this
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Chad Arnow
myArmoury Team


myArmoury Team

PostPosted: Sun 10 Sep, 2006 8:14 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I can't help you with chape construction but here are some scans of scabbard chapes from monumental brasses. These are obviously not a representative cross-section of surviving chapes. Happy


 Attachment: 24.97 KB
Hohenloe1319.jpg
Circa 1319

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Decreke1325.jpg
Circa 1325

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Abernoun1340.jpg
Circa 1340

 Attachment: 23.4 KB
Dalison1400.jpg
Circa 1400

 Attachment: 15 KB
ask1460.jpg
Circa 1460

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Waite1482.jpg
Circa 1482

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Filmer1629.jpg
Circa 1629

Happy

ChadA

http://chadarnow.com/
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Sean Belair
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Joined: 08 Aug 2006

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PostPosted: Sun 10 Sep, 2006 9:40 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

thanks for those pics

im constanty amazed at how ornate the chapes can get
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Chad Arnow
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PostPosted: Sun 10 Sep, 2006 10:32 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Looking at period art, it seems a simple U-shaped piece of metal was pretty popular, too. It's basically a piece of metal that covers the lower edge of the scabbard's point, like what is seen here:



I would imagine you would form it around the scabbard (like with the sword in it for stability/strength as period scabbards were made with thin slats of wood). I'd be curious to hear how folks like Christian Fletcher, Kevin Iseli, and Aaron Schnatterly form theirs from scratch.

Happy

ChadA

http://chadarnow.com/
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Aaron Schnatterly




Location: New Glarus, WI
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PostPosted: Mon 11 Sep, 2006 12:24 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Chad Arnow wrote:
I'd be curious to hear how folks like Christian Fletcher, Kevin Iseli, and Aaron Schnatterly form theirs from scratch.

Merv summed it up fairly well... lots of methods can be used. Some are formed in one piece about a stake, some in two halves (then brazed or welded), and some in multiple pieces built up and filed down. Casting is yet another option, especially with ornate windowed/textured pieces such as the Viking one Jeff posted, or the one Chad posted circa 1400. The various attachment methods have also been mentioned - pressure fitting, riveting, and gluing can all be appropriate.
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Kevin Iseli
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Location: New Glarus, WI
Joined: 21 Sep 2003

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PostPosted: Mon 18 Sep, 2006 4:31 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

That particular chape, pictured with Chad's Sovereign Above), began as a 1 inch x 6 inch strip of brass. I used a small ball-peen hammer and a wood block to give it it's initial U shape. The wood block has a trough carved into it, deeper at the center and shallow at both ends. Using the ball-peen to hammer the brass into the trough gives it both that "gutter" shape and starts the U bend that will eventually mirror the scabbard's tip. After that, it's just a matter of annealing and forming the chape to the scabbard, as Chad described, with sword in place. I hope this both makes sense and is at least somewhat helpful. WTF?! Big Grin

Best,

--Kevin Iseli
Elvenarts scabbard shop
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