Researching Swords of 1625-1825... -- myArmoury.com

David Fictum

Dear people and historians of myArmoury.com,
I am new to these forums. I am at the moment searching for information on swords of the 1625-1825 era. I am more interested in those swords related to sea use. Any good online articles or images that I can use would be helpful. I personally do not have much experience at all with swords. Upon doing a search, I found this site, and appeared to me the best place to find assistance in my quest for knowledge. I am doing this research to find information for a article I am writing on Swords of the previously stated period, covering mainly swords used at sea and brief coverage of those on land. It is all for a new project called the "Age of Sail and Piracy '101'". To see that project, visit www.asp101project.com (just so you know, we use screen names there, my screen name being Brit.Privateer).

My first question is, what historical documentation is there behind the pirate swords offered here? I have never seen documentation for that hilt design, but yet see it all over places online. I have learned a lot about cutlasses from the book "Boarders Away" by William Gilkerson, and he never shows or mentions such a type of sword hilt among the seafarers of the period.

Shae Bishop · Posted: Sat 12 Aug, 2006 5:05 pm Post subject:

Jonathan Hopkins · Posted: Sat 12 Aug, 2006 5:08 pm Post subject:

For images I recommend the National Maritime Museum's online collection: http://www.nmm.ac.uk/collections/explore/inde...gedweapons

You also seem refer to a specific hilt design, but you do not have a photo or link. If you can give us a pic, we can surely help you!

Also, welcome to myArmoury.com!

Regards,
Jonathan

David Fictum · Posted: Sat 12 Aug, 2006 5:18 pm Post subject:

Strange, it was in your Weapon's Comparison section on this site. It was reffered to as "MRL Pirate Cutlass". Does that help at all?

I must say that you have all given me some good help rather quickly! Looking at some of the reproductions, they look shockingly like the ones Gilkerson had in his book. This site will definately have to be put on the Age of Sail and Piracy '101' as a link. Thank you very much. Anymore information is appreciated.

I also have another question, what is a "terminal" on a sword? Is it the end of a quillon? Just wanted to make sure.

Nathan Robinson · myArmoury Admin

Hi David-

Welcome to myArmoury.com. I hope I can help.

Jean Thibodeau · Posted: Sat 12 Aug, 2006 5:37 pm Post subject:

David Fictum · Posted: Sat 12 Aug, 2006 7:08 pm Post subject:

Thanks for the reply on the sword question. I know that pirates would have used any swords availabe during the period, I just wanted to see if the sword design that I have seen for sale so much online held and water in the way of being based on anything at all. I have a feeling I will have to get some help understanding some of the terms involving rapiers.

David Fictum · Posted: Sat 12 Aug, 2006 7:33 pm Post subject:

I do have one question though, after searching the site. I am looking for a Spanish Bilbo. I have not been able to find any information around here on it, and on a general search outside this site all I get is a couple images, and that is it. Hopefully someone knows where I can find some more information on this.

Shae Bishop · Posted: Mon 14 Aug, 2006 7:20 am Post subject:

I too have had trouble finding much information on the so-called "bilbo hilt" swords. All I have really been able to gather is that Spain continued to use clasically styled weapons like the cup-hilt rapier and bilbo hilt rapier/broadsword into the 19th century, long after the rest of Europe had turned to smallswords and curved cavalry sabres.

Here's a link to one of the few originals I've seen for sale. http://www.antiqueswords.com/bq821.htm

Shae

David Fictum · Posted: Mon 14 Aug, 2006 12:29 pm Post subject:

I also found that picture online before. I have found a little information in the book:
"Swords and HIlt Weapons" with contributing authors: Michael D. Coe, Peter Connolly, Anthony Harding, Victor Harris, Donald J. LaRocca, Thom Richardson, Anthony North, Christopher Spring, and Frederick Wilkinson.
In Chapter 5, (contributor Anthony North, each chapter has a main contributor) on page 63, it says:
"A somewhat cruder version of the cup-hilt rapier was the Spanish bilbo, the name perhaps deriving from the city of Bilbao in northern Spain. Characteristically, bilbo hilts have plain solid shell guards extending up to the pommel. Very crudely made versions of the biblo were favoured by Caribbean pirates towards teh end of the seventeenth century. The writer has also seen a bilbo said to have been used in England during the Civil War; it was fitted with a much-used Solingen blade. A form of bilbo with a very large double-edged blade became a standard military pattern in Spain during the eighteenth century. These large archaic weapons were still in use in the Napoleonic Wars and contrasted vividly with the elegant neo-classical hilts then in vogue throughout the rest of Europe."

After reading this, I thought I should investigate more. Does that add any new information to what you have gathered so far Shae? I also found this picture: http://www.antiqnet.com/detail,spanish-bilbo-1720,1053774.html

Felix Wang · Posted: Mon 14 Aug, 2006 12:54 pm Post subject:

It would be worthwhile to get a hold of Harold L Peterson's book on Arms and Armour in Colonial America. This covers the major period of 17th-18th century piracy, and covers all sorts of arms used in the New World at that time.

David Fictum · Posted: Mon 14 Aug, 2006 1:01 pm Post subject:

Thank you for your suggestion. Ever since visiting here I have added several books to my "To Purchase" list. As soon as I get some money, I will have to order them.

Jonathan Hopkins · Posted: Mon 14 Aug, 2006 2:41 pm Post subject:

George C. Neumann's Swords and Blades of the American Revolution would also cover the time period and sword type in which you have interest. There is a nice "bilbo" type sword (296.s) on p. 160, as well as a plethora of swords that would have been used by men in the age of fighting sail (mostly English and American, but there are a good number of continental swords, too).

David Fictum · Posted: Tue 15 Aug, 2006 1:40 pm Post subject:

I have found another sword that results in very little of anything in information online, the scarf sword. I could not find any articles on them around here either.

Also, this question was not answered before: A terminal is the end of a quillon, is it not?

Jonathan Hopkins · Posted: Tue 15 Aug, 2006 1:57 pm Post subject:

David Fictum · Posted: Mon 04 Sep, 2006 7:35 pm Post subject:

Once again, I have found a topic I am meeting some difficulty with.
With swords, I have decided to also do dirks. So far I have found much information on dirks for officers in the second part of the 18th century and early 19th century. But other than that kind of information, I have not turned up much. Some things I have noticed is that Scottish Dirks are documented a lot. Why? Also, I noticed that there are "common" dirks for the average person (I saw the "Everyman's Dirk" thread: http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=7596 ), but is there that much difference between a dirk and a knife for the common person? I am really interested in knowing if there is anything else to pursue in this Dirk business besides naval officer dirks.

Felix Wang · Posted: Tue 05 Sep, 2006 4:54 pm Post subject:

As far as I can tell, naval "dirks" are a hodge-podge of different short blades, with the common factor being that they were worn by junior naval officers. They were likely always primarily symbolic, since any junior officer in a boarding party would doubtless have had a proper cutlass (or other sword of his preference) and pistols, with his dirk being there as a last-ditch weapon.

I don't think they had any unifying design, unlike the Scottish ones.

Here are a few: http://www.vallejogallery.com/item.php?id=1462
and something completely different: http://hometown.aol.com/machood/navaldirk.html
and Japanese ones http://home.earthlink.net/~steinrl/dirks.htm
and another: http://www.ambroseantiques.com/swords/ivorydirk.htm

Shae Bishop · Posted: Tue 05 Sep, 2006 5:46 pm Post subject:

Here is a link to a Swedish site which has nice pictures of a variety of northern European swords from your period of interest.

http://www.sfhm.se/templates/pages/ArmeObjectListPage____306.aspx

Shae

David Fictum · Posted: Thu 07 Sep, 2006 2:16 pm Post subject:

Thank You, it always helps to have more pictures. Been getting more books. Starting to get a better view of sword evolution. Rather than that "sudden changes" style history you commonly picture from school years, you get that "gradual" evolution of swords which makes more sence.

Anything on Dirks?

Felix Wang · Posted: Thu 07 Sep, 2006 6:01 pm Post subject:

A good basic book on short blades is Peterson's Daggers and Fighting Knives of the Western World. This has been reprinted recently, and should be readily available and not expensive. It does deal with dirks, among other subjects.