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Randall Moffett
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 Posted: Sat 02 Sep, 2006 11:04 pm Post subject: |
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WE had a small discussion about the origin of the word and how it 'should' be spelled. IN the end both were fairly convincing. I think it is not as easy as poll= head. Part of the problem is that the pollax also was an agricultural tool used to slaugher pigs as well. I as yet have reserved judgement on what I think but I would not feel convinced enough either way to make a stance on it.
RPM
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Geoff Wood
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| Posted: Sun 03 Sep, 2006 1:11 am Post subject: |
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| Randall Moffett wrote: | WE had a small discussion about the origin of the word and how it 'should' be spelled. IN the end both were fairly convincing. I think it is not as easy as poll= head. Part of the problem is that the pollax also was an agricultural tool used to slaugher pigs as well. I as yet have reserved judgement on what I think but I would not feel convinced enough either way to make a stance on it.
RPM |
And cattle too, I believe. Sort of a stunning hammer (pre captive-bolt days), from what I've been told (no refs, sorry). Poll is still a term used for the head in cattle (in UK anyway).
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Randall Moffett
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| Posted: Sun 03 Sep, 2006 5:39 am Post subject: |
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True but it could vary from origin just as a number of other words do. I could find the post perhaps if I look, it is quite long and drawn out for me to repeat it all over again. They went into anglo-norman words and medieval french to explain the possible combinations of the word. I will look for it . ONe of the curators I work with and I have been discussiong this as well. I have to say entmology is not my thing really. To be fair in 14th and 15th century england it is spelled in many more variants than just poleax and pollax so it does not really bother me either way. If they used it interchangable why?
RPM
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Geoff Wood
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| Posted: Sun 03 Sep, 2006 8:49 am Post subject: |
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| Randall Moffett wrote: | True but it could vary from origin just as a number of other words do. I could find the post perhaps if I look, it is quite long and drawn out for me to repeat it all over again. They went into anglo-norman words and medieval french to explain the possible combinations of the word. I will look for it . ONe of the curators I work with and I have been discussiong this as well. I have to say entmology is not my thing really. To be fair in 14th and 15th century england it is spelled in many more variants than just poleax and pollax so it does not really bother me either way. If they used it interchangable why?
RPM |
Mr Moffett
I'd be interested to see what you can find. I find etymology fun. As you say, spelling was very free and probably stayed that way at least until dictionaries became popular, at which point some version or versions became fixed (sometimes rather odd versions, but there you go, mustn't grumble). Interestingly, spelling (English at least) appears to be becoming more flexible again, not just because of the classic 'two countries separated by a common language' phenomenon but also with less formal educational standards (in UK at least), the use of US spellcheckers in UK (or vice versa) and the growth of alternative forms in such areas as texting on mobile 'phones.
regards
Geoff
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Nathan Robinson
myArmoury Admin
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Russ Ellis
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Tue 05 Sep, 2006 7:10 am Post subject: |
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Now that's delivery! Timely too.  Kudos to both you and Alexi for the well written informative article.
Also good on you George for bringing up the excellent thoughts on linguistics as well as the others bringing other knowledge to the table.
Does this mean I have to quit using the term pollhammer?
TRITONWORKS Custom Scabbards
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Nathan Robinson
myArmoury Admin
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| Posted: Tue 05 Sep, 2006 12:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Russ Ellis wrote: | | Now that's delivery! Timely too. Kudos to both you and Alexi for the well written informative article. |
I bumped the article just for you.
| Quote: | | Does this mean I have to quit using the term pollhammer? |
Have you read that term before? I don't remember seeing it before but I just woke up after working late last night so I'm not all here just yet.
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Russ Ellis
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Tue 05 Sep, 2006 1:43 pm Post subject: |
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I'm pretty sure I did not make it up, but have no idea where I might have read the term. Maybe I am so linguistically gifted I've taken to making up my own words... or maybe I'm just a savant of the idiot varaiety...
TRITONWORKS Custom Scabbards
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Randall Moffett
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| Posted: Tue 05 Sep, 2006 11:23 pm Post subject: |
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Geoff,
sorry for the delay. I will not even go into it. Needless to say here is the post on the origin:
http://forums.armourarchive.org/phpBB2/viewto...ht=poleaxe
If you are looking for historical slip slinding. The York Archdiocese Probate inventories lists a wide variety of spellings and also types of pole weapons. They mention Carlisle axes and I wonder if they are not the Juddart axe. It is a good read. I do not remember if the publication of it keeps the inconsistancies but I think they do. If not the only place to read them is here in the York Minister library archives. I am fairly sure the one who transposed it did keep the inconsistancies though.
Happy hunting!
RPM
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Geoff Wood
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| Posted: Wed 06 Sep, 2006 2:12 am Post subject: |
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Mr Moffett
Thanks for that. Some excellent pictures. Slaughtering hasn't changed much, stun then bleed. I like the idea of the intertwining of meanings. Sounds like the way a lot of language develops. Should we, perhaps, start thinking of polearms in general as both those on a pole and those with a poll?
regards
Geoff
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Randall Moffett
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| Posted: Wed 06 Sep, 2006 6:47 am Post subject: |
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I think in a way for sure. One problem to deal with is the combination of languages. Latin and Germanic bases for most English words with some similar words that mean similar things and others that do not. In the end I prefer to use pole axe. Now in reality I do not know why. I think there are more period sources spelled more or less so. Now could it be pollaxe. Totally. I have heard people say for some reason or another one is correct over the other. I don't, but I'll keep looking and perhaps someday will find it but as of now, for myself, both are fine uses of the word. I even though of using polax as I see it quite common as well.... very ambiguous... Sorry for the lack of any stance on it but that really is where I am at on it.
RPM
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This is a standard topic
