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Kim Jansson
Location: Sweden Joined: 16 Jun 2006
Posts: 11
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 Posted: Fri 30 Jun, 2006 4:21 pm Post subject: Strange Gun |
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Hi all
Found this lovely picture in a german manuscript "Kriegsbuch" (Codex Palatini germanici 126,1496 Heidelberg)
http://digi.ub.uni-heidelberg.de/cpg126/0070
The top one has a kind of trigger mechanism with a glowing rope for igniting the blackpowder (swe-luntlås). This seems to be a rather large gun, I base this on its masiveness and the stance seen below. has anybody more information on simmilar guns? painings, finds, other discussions? I have a friend who probaly would like to build somethin simmilar, any hint or reference would be of great value.
The whole manuscript is full of interesting pictures, of cannons and well a lot of siege stuff but mostly construction/enginering machines.
http://digi.ub.uni-heidelberg.de/sammlung2/we...d=PAGE0118
I just have to show this picture http://digi.ub.uni-heidelberg.de/cpg126/0079 - like a knigth taking swiming lessions! 
The links to a whole lot of other german manuscripts
http://www.ub.uni-heidelberg.de/helios/digi/handschriften.html
Well thats it..
/Kim
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Chuck Russell
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Kim Jansson
Location: Sweden Joined: 16 Jun 2006
Posts: 11
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| Posted: Sat 01 Jul, 2006 2:38 am Post subject: |
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No not really, but matchlock var the word I was looking for! Chuck the link you provided is probably verry simmilar to the smaler handgone. This handgone seems to have an exteral fireing mechanism, oposed to most machloch I have seen which semms to have an internal ( inside the wodden part). Also it is cast frome broze and have a large hock normaly seen on earlier hackbuts (ca 1400) More like nr 2 and 4 in this pic
or possibly
Bronze handgonne barrel, late 1400's, royal armouries (XII, 959)
Pictures from this homepage: http://homepages.ihug.com.au/~dispater/handgonnes.htm
The second picture seems most interesting, rather large (I´m guessing here) and a louch hole at the side of the barrel.
Cant find pictures of this gun thoug, anyone know a good place wit pictures from Royal armories?
Well thanks for the reply....keep looking.
/Kim
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Chuck Russell
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| Posted: Sat 01 Jul, 2006 7:12 am Post subject: |
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sorry, not sure i follow.
the link i posted is like the first picture you posted.
the gonnes in the second post are indeed different. they are earlier hand gonnes. most attach to a wooden shaft and the shooter used a lite fuse in his other hand and manually lit the gunpowder
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Jean Thibodeau
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| Posted: Sat 01 Jul, 2006 12:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Chuck Russell wrote: | sorry, not sure i follow.
the link i posted is like the first picture you posted.
the gonnes in the second post are indeed different. they are earlier hand gonnes. most attach to a wooden shaft and the shooter used a lite fuse in his other hand and manually lit the gunpowder |
The main difference I can see is one of scale with the first one posted being a Huge wallgun using the wooden tripod thing the way a modern tripod would be used for a heavy machine gun. The hook under the front of the stock would be used to brace the gun on the wooden tripod or might be used braced on a wall to absorb most of the recoil.
When I say HUGE I mean huge for a handgonne that would probably have two men carrying around and it's accessories.
Compared to a canon it would be a small semi man portable canon and would never be shot from the shoulder without at least being braced over it's wooden " base " or some solid object like a wall or tree branch.
But in style and general look it does resemble the much smaller one shown by Chuck, but might be a tiny bit earlier in period using an outside mounted lock. The calibre might be between 25 mm to 40 mm at a guess ?
You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Kim Jansson
Location: Sweden Joined: 16 Jun 2006
Posts: 11
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| Posted: Mon 03 Jul, 2006 5:00 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks a lot Jean for that post, you wrote what I was trying to write and gave me some interesting insights. I did a search of wallgun on google but found mostly from 17th to 18th century and nothing on this forum. This semms to be a rather rare weapon, has anyone seen other weapons mounted on tripods or similar mounts?
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Randall Moffett
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| Posted: Wed 05 Jul, 2006 4:14 am Post subject: |
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There are accounts that indicate two man teams for 'hand gunnes' fairly common, especially in the early years. i found in the hussite accounts the tended to be in two man teams per wagon which adds perhaps to this. Not suer if it helps but There is a book on the Hussites by Fudge that containes a number of excerts from primary sources regarding them out but really guns are listed as a very small part of their accounts, the war fail and wagons seem dominant in the accounts of their battles.
Randall
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Kim Jansson
Location: Sweden Joined: 16 Jun 2006
Posts: 11
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| Posted: Wed 12 Jul, 2006 3:49 pm Post subject: |
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Found this on Hermann-historica and it seems to most interesting as it has a simmilar construction: http://www.hermann-historica.de/auktion/hhm47...at47_2.txt
Radal thanks for the info, but I have had no time/effort to look it up. What do you eterans think about Hermann-historica as acurate information? I´ve heard from someone it wasn´t that reliable.. however this is all I have found so far..
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Randall Moffett
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| Posted: Wed 12 Jul, 2006 10:58 pm Post subject: |
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It looks good by what I know. I think brass guns were in use for a long time, especially on board ships as well.
RPM
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B. Fulton
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| Posted: Sun 16 Jul, 2006 3:58 am Post subject: |
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I've seen some similar gonnes in the Antique Arms Museum in San Marino.
I'll see if A. I've got pics of them (I took a lot, of everything) and B. If they're clear (autofocus sometimes focused on glass).
They were "wallguns" used from the ramparts of the three towers and various small forts defending the republic.
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This is a standard topic