New scabbard for Albion Baron/Duke sword -- myArmoury.com

Nathan Robinson · myArmoury Admin

Check out the newly posted scabbard for Albion's Next Generation Baron and Duke swords. I believe it's the work of Aaron Schnatterly, new(ish) scabbard-maker for Albion.

Click photo for more photos and information.

Eric Nower · Posted: Thu 29 Jun, 2006 5:59 am Post subject:

Yup, I recieved one of the first Barron scabbards. Aaron does fabulous work. The detail blew my mind. He has a large and bright future up in the North Big Grin

Edward Hitchens · Posted: Thu 29 Jun, 2006 6:06 am Post subject:

That is outstanding work! I love the antiqued metal fittings. I hope Aaron is doing well. Anyone heard from him?

Jaromír Kožiak · Posted: Thu 29 Jun, 2006 6:16 am Post subject:

Hmm... i dont like this scabbard ... The leatherwork is rather amateurish... not very precise
Compare with this scabbard I made for my sword myself (it is the first scabbard I made), using no special tools... the photo is not very good, but it is the best I currently have.

Nathan Robinson · myArmoury Admin

Mr. Kožiak-

I donj't see a lack of precision in the Baron scabbard at all. In fact, it looks rather detailed to my eyes. It also happens to follow a historical pattern, which makes it quite appealing to me personally.

The incised lines appear straight. The leather width on the strapping seems consistent. The stamp work seems symmetrical and even.

I'm very curious what parts you're considering to be lacking in precision.

Pamela Muir · Posted: Thu 29 Jun, 2006 6:27 am Post subject:

Absolutely beautiful work from Aaron! Wow! :stunned nearly speechless emoticon:

Allen W · Posted: Thu 29 Jun, 2006 6:37 am Post subject:

One of Aaron's Baron scabbards was at the Blade Show. It was a lighter brown and I believe that the leather flaps had rounded tops but I believe believe the inscriptions, furniture, and suspension were all the same. I was quite impressed.

Jaromír Kožiak · Posted: Thu 29 Jun, 2006 6:42 am Post subject:

I dont want to be rude... I am sorry...it is not such a bad work - but it is not a good work either. Maybe the manufacturer just needs more time to improve his craft skills..
The shape, the pattern and the system of straps tieing belt to the scabbard are OK in my opinion. But:
The leather is of poor quality - you can see it best just in the place, where the belt is connected to the scabbard.
I do not like the light brownish colour of the belt - but that is just a matter of choice.
One of the leather straps is not cut straight.
The edges are not cleansed - you can see little hairs everywhere the leather was cut. Sheesh... In fact - no work was done to make the edges look better
Apparently the leather was coloured before cutting - therefore all the edges are much lighter than the surface.
The ornaments are too shalow - these are almost unrecognizable...

Chris Last · Posted: Thu 29 Jun, 2006 6:58 am Post subject:

Seeing in person the scabbards coming out of the workshop at Albion, I gotta say I disagree Jaromir. Maybe the quality just isn't translating in the pictures well, but they are top notch. The detail work on the tooling maybe subtle compared to some of the work on your piece (which IS very nice looking BTW), but it is very detailed and really just 'looks' like it made its way from medieval Europe. Most of the leather I have seen being worked at Albion isn't the gloss finish like you used (correct me if I'm wrong folks), but to be honest I think that's a matter of personal preference. I prefer the matte finish works to the gloss ones. The leather, in person, is obviously of top quality and the stitching and finish work that Aaron is doing is spectacular.

From the posted pictures, it looks to me like the straps are even, widening proportionally, and the irregular coloring adds to the antiqued appearance that was advertised on the Albion site, IMO.

As to the finished edges on the leather, are there any existing examples of scabbards to show what was done in period? I'm very curious about that.

Best-

Chris

Nathan Robinson · myArmoury Admin

Products like Super Sheen (Polyurethane) were likely not available in medeival times. I prefer a simple oiled finish for this type of work, or in some cases, a waxed finish. The subtle tooling/stamping is a matter of preference, I suppose. I would not like to see the Baron scabbard with more crisp stamping, personally. In terms of leather choice for the belts, I would not choose an oak-tanned tooling leather for the belt, but would choose what Albion did. I believe this is in line with belts contemporary to the period in question.

The one thing where I agree with Jaromír and the only suggestion I could see giving Albion / Aaron would be to burnish the edges on the strapwork. Not only does this give a cleaner appearance, it adds durability. I'm guessing the scabbard faces are burnished, but they may not be. Proper burnishing takes time and costs more.

Joe Fults · Posted: Thu 29 Jun, 2006 7:18 am Post subject:

Nice to see something from him.

Jaromír Kožiak · Posted: Thu 29 Jun, 2006 7:19 am Post subject:

Jaromír Kožiak · Posted: Thu 29 Jun, 2006 7:29 am Post subject:

Another comment - use of unpolished metal parts on a sword scabbard is not probable - it was common to polish these to prevent corrosion. What else would be the servants for? :o))

Shining leather.. that is partially result of the photograph and use of good smooth-surface leather.

Nathan Robinson · myArmoury Admin

Jaromír Kožiak · Posted: Thu 29 Jun, 2006 7:40 am Post subject:

Allan Senefelder · Industry Professional

Leather is the skin of an animal and is subject to the same variences our skin is, scaring, light and dark patches,thicker and thinner points and the variability that diet can introduce from one hide the next, all of which leads to an inescapable slight variation in the dying coloration of a hide around its surface area. I've been through ALOT of leather over the last 10 years and this is a commonality. Additionally while old doesn't mean primitive it doesn't mean machine made either , it means skillfully hand made, and with hand made comes the variences that are inescapable when doing things by eye. I can find these sorts of variences on every period piece in our collcetion as well as many, many that i've seen in museums, this is a byproduct of hand made manufacturing. If you want machine made uniformity go to some one who makes things with machines. We have survivng original straps on a few pieces in our collection, and these strapps would have been as visible as the belt and scabbard of a sword, and they show no evidence whatsoever of any attempt to finish thier edges. Do you have documentation to support your assertion that this was a commonality of manufacturing scabbard belting during the period or is this assertion convienient supposition? I would be interested in reading what documentation you may have as it would of course be a valueable study of period leather working.

Jaromír Kožiak · Posted: Thu 29 Jun, 2006 7:58 am Post subject:

Rod Parsons · Posted: Thu 29 Jun, 2006 8:07 am Post subject: Standards of finish etc.

I think it is a mistake to judge a mediaeval replica by contemporary saddle work standards. Not that a top of the line piece could not be so precise, but a lot of mediaeval gear was either quite plain or decorated in a rather loose style.
See the Museum of London "Knives and Scabbards" by Cowgill, De Neergard & Griffiths., Boydell Press, ISBN 0 85115 805 6 for drawings of some very freely cut and tooled patterns.
I think the item shown is a good representation of a run of the mill plain scabbard of the period.
A very good friend of mine is a top maker of saddlery quality leatherwork for archers here in the UK, but when it comes to making replicas of everyday mediaeval stuff, he can be over precise and lacks a degree of freedom in the way he makes marks on leather.
Rod.

Allan Senefelder · Industry Professional

I'm not sure I understand your frustration, your assertion is that the work is poor by period manufacturing standards. What i've stated about the coloration of dyed leather is simpley the inescapable reality of dying dried organic tissues at least today. If there was a fool proof method of achieving a thorough even dying throughout on every hide during the period please present it ,I as well as others i'm sure not the least of which would be a variety of leather manufacturing firms would be very interested in learing more about it and I mean that with all seriousness. I pointed out examples of period leather straps that I have in my possesion (including a fine Maximillian leg harness) that do not demonstrate the techinique which you've possited was common at the time. Maybe my comparison, as I used straps on armour rather than straps on a sword suspension may be apples and oranges once you present your evidence on period sword belting and you will proved completely correct in your assertion, but without that evidence you've simpley made a statement of opinion, and a damning one at that, so the request for documentation would serve to strengthen your assertions and bring valuable knowledge to the table. Rather than being frustrated because your assertion was not simpley accepted, please present your facts, as I at least for one am eager to learn what informantion you may be able to bring to the fore that I was not aware of. I look forward to your info.

Robert Zamoida · Posted: Thu 29 Jun, 2006 11:08 am Post subject:

Way to go Aaron!