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Einar Drønnesund





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PostPosted: Fri 30 Jan, 2004 5:45 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Peter Johnsson wrote:
Sean Flynt wrote:
Are the holes (usually three) seen in the distal end of some execution swords for the attachment of a weight? I read that somewhere, but haven't ever confirmed that this is true. It sort of makes sense, but then sort of doesn't. Why not simply make a blade with more mass at the distal end? Were weights added to blades that simply didn't have the mass they needed to do the job efficiently? I mean, was this a way for executioners to fine-tune their instrument? It seems unlikely that the holes were merely decorative....


Sean,
I´ve wondered about those.
I do not think they are for attaching weights. That does not sound very practical: you adjust the proper heft in the sword to begin with. Weights would also interfere with the cutting action of the blade.
If I would guess a practical purpose it might be that the three holes creates a swishing sound when the sword is swung. This can offer a quick intuitive controll to the alignement of the sword. A clean straight hit is very important, as Craig already have pointed out. If you hear the whisteling sound you can adjust the alignement of the blade ever so slightly during the swing.
I do not know if this is reasonable. Not all features are meant to be functional, but it could be something to test.

-Anyone that is willing to drill holes in his sword, so we can learn?


Hei, Peter. :-)

I have wondered about the holes before, and the first thing that struck me when I saw the first pic was "sound". I have an idea, but how good it is, I dont know. What if theyre supposed to make a swooshing or whistling sound just for the dramatic effect? I just keep imagening the crowd falling silent as the headsman prepares, posing briefly before striking, making a clear, sharp whistling sound before the head falls, and the crowd roars in approval. We love drama, and ritual after all. Just a thought.

I also thought that the sound could be used as a way to know exactly when youre making a perfectly alligned cut. I caouldnt say if you could react and adjust mid-cut, like you suggested, but it could be useful in practicing cuts, which I am sure headsmen would do. Isnt this why a lot of iaido students use a fullered blade in practice? (I'm pretty sure they do it for the coolness factor as well. In fact, I have first hand information about that. Big Grin )
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Einar Drønnesund





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PostPosted: Sat 31 Jan, 2004 5:50 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I showed this thread to a friend of mine, and he suggested that the holes might have an effect on the placement of the COP.

Any thoughts about that? I doubt they would make much difference, but then again, I'm no swordsmith.
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Thomas McDonald
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PostPosted: Sat 31 Jan, 2004 6:37 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Perhaps they are just an example of an executioners sense of humor .....

"Smile for the crowd, now"

Or direction symbols ..... This End Towards Head



Okay, I'll be quiet now *g* Mac

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Jeremy V. Krause




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PostPosted: Sat 31 Jan, 2004 8:44 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

That's great thomas! Big Grin A bit morbid but great nonetheless.
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Shawn Mulock




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PostPosted: Sun 01 Feb, 2004 2:28 pm    Post subject: Re: test cutting         Reply with quote

Jonathon Janusz wrote:
thanks for the replies, gentlemen.

and yes, Peter, the thought of test cutting did come to mind. here in Wisconsin around the beginning of November it is pretty easy to come by a few hundred pumpkins no one wanted for halloween dirt cheap. . . I'd think a reasonable facsimile of a man's squishy bits. . .

so, anyone curious enough to make a project of it? just for future reference.

Jon


Well...
I am seriously thinking about having replicas of several swords made over the next decade or so (all I can afford at the moment) and there is one Executioner's Sword at my local Museum that might bear being reproduced. I have spoken with the curator about this and he is receptive of my visiting to take measurements of weapons. However that is one sword I am waiting on for a bit. I have a few weapons I want to pick up from A&A and Albion first.

"It is not what you have, but what you have done".
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Michal Plezia
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PostPosted: Sat 03 Jun, 2006 12:47 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I've heard an opinion that those holes could be used to add some weights to make the sword even more 'blade-heavy'
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Wolfgang Armbruster





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PostPosted: Sat 03 Jun, 2006 1:32 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Michal Plezia wrote:
I've heard an opinion that those holes could be used to add some weights to make the sword even more 'blade-heavy'


I'm no expert on this, but you'll find the same holes drilled in halberd-blades and Messer-blades. It seems to be some kind of late gothic trend, mostly found in the late 15th and early 16th century.
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Jean Thibodeau




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PostPosted: Sat 03 Jun, 2006 2:46 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thomas McDonald wrote:
Perhaps they are just an example of an executioners sense of humor .....

"Smile for the crowd, now"

Or direction symbols ..... This End Towards Head



Okay, I'll be quiet now *g* Mac


They could also have added lawyer inspired warnings on the blade: " Proper use of this executioner's sword could cause death ", " Holding by the blade may cause cuts to the hands " , " Random use strictly forbidden ". Big Grin

Or from the National Executioner's Association, NEA: " Executioner's swords don't kill people, executioners kill people ".

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Glen A Cleeton




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PostPosted: Sat 03 Jun, 2006 5:07 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I guess this would belong here. I've never wanted to start a thread just for this example. Fact or fanciful and decorative? Listed as Hungarian

http://www.collectorsfirearms.com/sw164.htm

While we're here (and there) This would likely get it done

http://www.collectorsfirearms.com/mew657.htm

Cheers

GC
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Adam Bodorics
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PostPosted: Mon 05 Jun, 2006 11:08 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Yes, that is Hungarian, double cross on triple mound. Big Grin Looks quite like a tegha, btw. An example of the thega, Indian execution sword.
I don't know, I prefer oriental execution/sacrifical swords.... they soemhow seem like far better cutters. Like this kora.

About repeated strikes: the brother of the later King Matthias, Laszlo, suffered 3 strikes which failed to kill him, and that would have freed him from more punishment, but instead of obeying of this old "law", the headsman stroke a 4th one, killing him at last. Durable guy, it seems.
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Mikko Kuusirati




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PostPosted: Tue 06 Jun, 2006 3:53 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jeremy V. Krause wrote:
I thought that I may be able to offer a small bit of personal opinion about the issue of the three holes in the executioner's blade.
Along with historical weapons I have an interest in historical depictions of the Christian faith, especially that of the high middle ages. In looking at artwork of figures and stories and decorations of reliquaries and other devotional objects I am not aware of any time the Trinity was represented as an ABSENCE of matter i.e. holes. Indeed the Triune God is almost never given representation in one place, except for Crucifixes where the Father is shone as an outstretched hand and the Spirit as a bird or dove. I do not blieve these holes have a religious significance. Thanks, Jeremy

So, how about the three crosses on the fortes of many heading swords, then? A more likely religious symbol, perhaps?

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