| Author |
Message |
|
Derek Estabrook
|
 Posted: Sun 21 May, 2006 5:15 pm Post subject: The Norse after 1300 |
 |
|
|
I have a question about weaponry and armor after the Viking Age ended. I've done a lot of searching about Norse peoples after the Viking Age, but for the most part all that comes up is historical references and facts with very little detail. I have seen nothing that shows their evolution after the Bayeux Tapestry and a few things. There is a huge wealth of information from the Viking Age, but it seems like people lose interest after that time. Do they keep up with the trends throughout Europe? I know the crossbow becomes more common in Scandinavia and that a few swords have been found with circular pommels from mounds dating the middle of the 11th century, but that still leaves a lot of unexplored ground. The Icelandic Sagas give a lot of insight, but only up to around 1250-1300 and it doesn't show much difference from the Viking Age. Any info would be appreciated or a push in the right direction, but I know its pretty general. Thanks.
|
|
  |
 |
|
J. Bedell
|
| Posted: Sun 21 May, 2006 5:45 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Iv'e wondered the same question. It seems like after their defeat at Stamford Bridge in 1066, the Vikings went back up north to lick their wounds. They did follow many European trends such as becoming christian, and switching from a tribal style of life to the forming of nations, so they most likely followed trends in armour and weaponry(IMO). This is just what I have found, but I don't reserach much about the Vikings after 1066. Hope this helps, and maybe someone with more knowledge can chime in and help out some more.
-James
The pen may be mighter, but the sword is much more fun.
|
|
  |
|
Chuck Russell
|
| Posted: Sun 21 May, 2006 6:02 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
problem is... as of 1066 the vikings as we know them didnt exist. they had settled down in teh countries they once sacked. funny thing is, william attacked what was his great grandfathers generation offspring.
|
|
  |
|
Alexander Hinman
|
| Posted: Sun 21 May, 2006 6:03 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Osprey has a book on the subject. http://www.ospreypublishing.com/title_detail....mp;ser=MAA
Judging by the picture on the cover, armies would be considered by the Europeans to be mostly modern with some antiquated elements, like the round shield and the lamellar on that axe-wielding fellow.
But this is only one book and a rather thin one at that.
|
|
|
|
|
Elling Polden
|
| Posted: Mon 22 May, 2006 1:17 am Post subject: |
|
|
The guys with the lamelars are slavic OpFor 
With the centralization of power and nation building in the 11th-13th cent, the viking raids become rare. Note that viking, as used in the sagas, means "raider". As such the norse where never all vikings. rather, the vikings came to define an era.
Basically, the norse became integrated in christian europe. Clothes and weaponry follow roughly the same fashions as on the continent.
The norwegian nobility is hit particularly hard by the Plague in 1348, not because they all died, but because their income was based on land dues from farms that where now abandoned.
I'm no real specialist on the post 13th cent. era, though... Guess I could poke around a bit.
Notably, there are various atempts to create a nordic union, wich was sucsessfull for a short while, before the swedish seceded.
"this [fight] looks curious, almost like a game. See, they are looking around them before they fall, to find a dry spot to fall on, or they are falling on their shields. Can you see blood on their cloths and weapons? No. This must be trickery."
-Reidar Sendeman, from King Sverre's Saga, 1201
|
|
 |
|
Martin Wallgren
|
| Posted: Mon 22 May, 2006 1:50 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Elling Polden wrote: | The guys with the lamelars are slavic OpFor
With the centralization of power and nation building in the 11th-13th cent, the viking raids become rare. Note that viking, as used in the sagas, means "raider". As such the norse where never all vikings. rather, the vikings came to define an era.
Basically, the norse became integrated in christian europe. Clothes and weaponry follow roughly the same fashions as on the continent.
The norwegian nobility is hit particularly hard by the Plague in 1348, not because they all died, but because their income was based on land dues from farms that where now abandoned.
I'm no real specialist on the post 13th cent. era, though... Guess I could poke around a bit.
Notably, there are various atempts to create a nordic union, wich was sucsessfull for a short while, before the swedish seceded. |
To futher Ellings answer I want to point out that the "raids", from the eastern part of Scandinavia at least, continued with great force but under the cross. Lots of war expeditions where sent east and south in the name of the holy crusade to Virgin Marys land (The Baltic states and parts of Poland today). But as Elling said it was a centralization of the nations and a founding of what is today Norway, Sweden and Denmark. What had been a good economical foundigground, the raids, now had to bee defended. This made the lokal jarls and other tribal chieftains look to the south and adopt parts of the feudal system. The 1300th and forth to the renessans was in fact a very long gangwar between parties and clans. In the 14th c. it was back into a union called the Kalmar union. This resulted in a myrriad of uprisings and small and large civil wars that raged all the 15th c.It isn´t until the Gustaf Eriksson Wasa that some sort of stability is inforced and the final separation between Sweden and Denmark (so far).
Then in the late 16th c. early 17th c. the Scands where back on the Europead arena again ....
Martin
Swordsman, Archer and Dad
|
|
|
|
|
W. Schütz
Industry Professional
|
| Posted: Mon 22 May, 2006 7:01 am Post subject: Re: The Norse after 1300 |
|
|
| Derek Estabrook wrote: | | I have a question about weaponry and armor after the Viking Age ended. I've done a lot of searching about Norse peoples after the Viking Age, but for the most part all that comes up is historical references and facts with very little detail. I have seen nothing that shows their evolution after the Bayeux Tapestry and a few things. There is a huge wealth of information from the Viking Age, but it seems like people lose interest after that time. Do they keep up with the trends throughout Europe? I know the crossbow becomes more common in Scandinavia and that a few swords have been found with circular pommels from mounds dating the middle of the 11th century, but that still leaves a lot of unexplored ground. The Icelandic Sagas give a lot of insight, but only up to around 1250-1300 and it doesn't show much difference from the Viking Age. Any info would be appreciated or a push in the right direction, but I know its pretty general. Thanks. |
As far as armour and weapons go i think scandinavia has some of the most interesting and diverse styles. With nobles not ever beeing a great force on the battlefield (largly due to their few numbers) after the 14th century you often see lots of types of different foot-solidiers weilding halberds, poleaxes and spears being a major threat to the mounted 'knights' (esp in the 15th and 16th C). What alot of norse people do, and have always done, is hunt and use the wood of the forest, bows and axes where things most people had - and could use. Im not too sure about Norway and Denmark but if you look at most uprisings and wars in Sweden from 13thC to the early 16thC its often the peasants and rural people that make up the "guys to get on your side"..(especially for beating those damn danes.;) And concidering the long-running law demanding you to bear arms most common people would have weapons and know their use. We also know there where alot of mercenaries operating in Sweden, and their modern equipment from central europe was something that spread the newest high-tech technology. Concidering these facts its easy to calculate, and historical finds also show, that we had very different styles of weapons and armour clashing on the field of battle. In early 1300 you could probably see a german mercenary or danish noble wearing bascinet, full maille, splinted greaves/couters or even the beginning of plate armour, and a bardische/middle-sized shield combined with a sword and dagger facing of with swedish peasants using maille, kettle-helms, axes, spears and roundshields. And as time progressed i would say the swedish militia was much better equiped then most in other countries, cos of their big part in wars past. And they was a force to fear even for the german mercinaries in the 15th and 16th century.
I am a big "fan" of the Battle of Wisby, and find that to be the midway-point of the middleages (dont ask me why..), and if you study that battle it contains lots of info saying lots about the times.
All this might be a bit irratic, its a lot of ground to cover, but i wrote what i could think of right now.
Gentes scitote,
vicine sive remote,
quod claret Suecia
plebeque militia.
|
|
|
|
|
Elling Polden
|
| Posted: Mon 22 May, 2006 7:24 am Post subject: |
|
|
The norwegian milita officially phased out the round shield in 1275, with the new consolidated law of king Magnus Lagabøter.
The pre 1275 law dated back to the 10th century, and stated that every free man should own a spear, axe or sword, and a shield, witch, at the least, should have three strips of iron on the front, and a well riveted handgrip.
Magnus the "minimal" shield with "three strips of iron on the front, and three straps on the back", signifying that this should be a kite or heather shield, rather than round shield.
Round shields remained in use on ships, but was no longer the primary shield of the milita troops.
The new law also demands a helmet for the wealthy, and gambeson or mail for the richest.
Axes remained a norwegian favorite, right up until the 18th century. In some areas the axe remained a status accessory for wealthy farmes, and where used as walking sticks with formal wear.
(17th cent norwegian militia where required to own a musket, axe and smallsword...)
"this [fight] looks curious, almost like a game. See, they are looking around them before they fall, to find a dry spot to fall on, or they are falling on their shields. Can you see blood on their cloths and weapons? No. This must be trickery."
-Reidar Sendeman, from King Sverre's Saga, 1201
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
|
All contents © Copyright 2003-2024 myArmoury.com — All rights reserved
Discussion forums powered by phpBB © The phpBB Group
Switch to the Basic Low-bandwidth Version of the forum
|
This is a standard topic